AIBU to ask how long the NHS has left?

[StrongCoffeeAvalanche]

Genuinely now have the mindset that's it's not 'will' the NHS go under but 'when'. I'm not in the NHS though so I guess I'm asking 2 questions here....

1. YABU the NHS will survive somehow or YANBU the NHS is going to go 100%

1. If IANBU when? How much longer do you think we have?

Realists is the term I'd use. It's absolutely terrible at the moment with no signs of improving. I love the ethos of the NHS and that's part of the reason why I've stayed despite how terrible it is, I think we should all be fighting to keep universal healthcare, but it doesn't mean that in its current form, how things are at the moment is good or sustainable.

I'm going to buck the trend and say that I took my 5 yr old ds to A&E on Thurs evening after a fall playing football. We were in hospital a total of 1hr and 15 minutes. He was triaged, x-rayed and diagnosed/treated in this time. He has a broken collarbone. I had a call the following day from the fracture clinic and his x-ray had already been reviewed by an orthopaedic consultant. He was brought back into hospital for the optimum sling to be fitted. I was blown away by the service! I am in no way diminishing the poor experience of anyone else. Simply describing the incredible care we received, and my gratitude for our wonderful NHS

I think they will just carry on letting private companies deliver 'nhs' services, fof orifit, paid by the tax payer and have less services available.

Then alongside it more and more people will buy additional cover

One of the issues generally is that I've been hearing that the NHS is on its knees for the past two years.

If you don't work directly in the organisation, use it much, or know people who do, and you get used to hearing that it's on its knees, then the statement ends up as white noise.

(I'm not saying that it isn't true, I just think that it's part of the problem - people don't know/believe it until it actually breaks)

I hope, while this winter has so far been pretty much a shit storm things will improve over the next year.

In my area there seems to be a number of prescribing pharmacist's (I know of 5 locally) that have in the past few months qualified and are able to prescribe for most types of acute infection. Hopefully this happens across the country, it should free up some GP appointments and also some of the load on 111/OOH.

While it's not a fix on waiting times and secondary care timescales. Relieving pressure on hospitals at least a little should trickle down and make some services feel more accessible.

I'm glad for you but genuinely amazed. My friend's teen waited 11 hours with a broken bone. Mum's done two 18 hour waits this year - stroke and suspected heart attack.

thecats can't figure out that one at all!

NHS Wales run by labour isn't fairing much better. In our city A and E is overflowing, ambulance wait times for anything below a heart attack/stroke is hours.

We recently had a lad with a dislocated hip, broken tibia/fibi wait 8 hour in excruciating pain for an ambulance, the family had resorted to crushing up codine tablets and putting it on teaspoons mixed with water and forcing it down his throat in an effort to give him some relief. But it didn't touch it really.

The NHS is now a dying duck in the water. It's just like you say OP how long till they fish the dead duck out.

I do however believe, a small and very small part of the problem is abuse of the NHS by the general public. Stop booking GP appointments for a cold, or booking appointments and not turning up. Stop calling an ambulance for a broken wrist or tonsillitis. Stop going to the pharmacy and getting a pharmacist to prescribe things like Calpol under the common ailment scheme. It's £1 for off brand paracetamol suspension for children.

I think the only way the NHS can save itself is to cut back pretty much on every service except life threatening, and truly A and E (broken bones/Trauma) cancer diagnosis and care, cardiac, crisis mental health intervention, children's health and so on. Basically, only treatment to keep you alive.

There will be no more things like infertility, psychology, weight management surgery, cosmetic, physiotherapy, dermatology. All this will get outsourced to private of which if you want it you pay for it.

GP's will become a 7 day 24/7 service across the board, but not anytime soon, as understandably strike action will delay this. All you have to see is the general publics reliance on GP OOH to know it's needed but it needs to be done right and not at the detriment of the poor GP's having to run it.

@Snowmoab I think it's an interesting role and to be fair it would be easy enough to put them under HCPC. I'm maybe biased as the girl at our GP is excellent, but she comes from a paramedic background. Id much rather it was easy to get nurse and ANP appointments vs the current battle to see a GP. A pharmacist does my Botox but can't give out antibiotics for strep throat without a GP script. Other countries have more responsibility on AHCP. I do think requirements are going to have to fall to keep the NHS.

I'm in the NHS over the years what was a band 5 task has become a band 4, what was a 6 has become a 5 etc etc so can see it happening to clinical staff aswel.

They do need to find a solution for those cases which need a walk in centre, rather than a hospital or a GP (as sometimes you can't wait for an appointment or the available times don't suit working
people ).

I once spent six hours in A&E in the UK waiting to get a cut stitched up - that kind of thing doesn't need a hospital.

In Aus, we do tend to have health insurance now and have to budget for it and it's not cheap but not on the scale of the US.

I pay a gap fee between what the government will pay for the GP and the actual cost. But I get an appointment when I want it so I consider it worthwhile.

Those that can't afford it can still use the public system but it takes some pressure off the system, as a whole.

I'm not sure what % of NI goes towards healthcare but I pay roughly a 2% surcharge on top of my salary for the equivalent in Aus. Plus health insurance.

My cousin is a nurse in A and E...says the majority still turning up with colds or flu or want a repeat prescription....all just clogging up the waiting areas....all ignore the signs and notices telling them they should go home and visit a pharmacy etc to buy paracetemol......i think there should be much stricter control to weed out all these timewasters....last time i was in A and E, there was a family chucking chairs about as the mother wanted a prescription and an interpreter....its madness...arrest them and ban them !!

I suspected I know where you are based and you're doing amazing!!!

This service that is being offered will continue to make sure a difference and saving people's lives

I'm really sad sorry to hear my post could be insulting to anyone in the NHS. Please know this was not at all my intention. The NHS workers are bloody incredible and my gripe was intended at the government. Sorry though if it misfired.

Thanks all for the replies though. I am particularly worried as I have a disabled son. The specialists he needs have never really been available through the NHS, so they have always out sourced through private ones. He's done utterly amazingly. However I can't imagine how we would ever cover the costs of his therapy if things go private.

My grandad died a year ago in pain and scared because an ambulance couldn't get there in time. I am struggling to come to terms with this.

I agree.

The one and only time I attended a and e I had a head laceration caused by a metal road sign swingin off its hinges and hitting me at the exact unfortunate time that I walked under it.

I walked in with blood soaked tea towels wrapped round my head as the cafe nearby had chucked them at me to help me, and the waitress drive me to a and e.

Luckily only sat in the waiting room for all of 10minutes. But in that 10 minutes you could tell some people really didn't need to be there! I distinctly remember one bloke saying "I need to see the Dr, I've had this cough for 2 weeks" mate that's neither an accident or an emergency!!!

What's really hurtful is fucking stupid posts like this.

Moscow "I think the only way the NHS can save itself is to cut back pretty much on every service except life threatening, and truly A and E (broken bones/Trauma) cancer diagnosis and care, cardiac, crisis mental health intervention, children's health and so on. Basically, only treatment to keep you alive.
There will be no more things like infertility, psychology, weight management surgery, cosmetic, physiotherapy, dermatology. All this will get outsourced to private of which if you want it you pay for it."

Half agree. Physio is important - could save someone from disability. get them back to work.

Dermatology - sepsis and other life threatening infections can and do enter from broken skin.

cancer - sad to say, my father was one to refuse to give up - if he'd been shown a bill for what it cost to keep him clinging on, I'm not sure what he'd have said. The amount of chemo to buy him a few more weeks in a hospital bed, unable to move....I sometimes wonder if people understand those costs. I only know because I overheard the MDT arguing over it.

I suppose we are on the same page though - a real cost benefit analysis. And some things are just too pricey. I'm fat, I have thought about weight loss surgery but I don't think the taxpayer should fund it.

Pre covid, I reckoned a decade

6 months into covid, I thought 5 years

And now, that’s it. I don’t think there’s any way back from this situation. It’s field medicine with extreme triage

in the last 6 months A&E delays have contributed to 15k extra deaths. If that’s not the sign of a failed system I don’t know what is

Some areas of the country seem to be fairing better than others.

My DH and I have both seperately needed A&E in the last 2 months and we've been seen, had tests and images, received medication and left within 4/5 hours.

A&E did me a physio referal with first appointment within 4 weeks, after a few weeks physio did referal to spinal unit which I had on 23 December. Theywho arranged an MRI for mid Jan and follow up appointment in place.

My DH went on 23 December and was sent for a more detailed ultrasound on christmas eve. All clear thankfully.

I've also had great treatment from GP for MH reasons, and an urgent referal for suspicious lump (thankfully all clear)

My Mum who lives an hour away from us has elective op planned for mid Jan after only waiting 4 months.

As a family we have needed NHS a lot this year and they have been fantastic and reliable.

If it goes, the cost of gas and electric will be nothing compared to real US-style health insurance, not the low level stuff you get through work to provide physio and deal with ingrown toenails quickly.

Forget free at the point of need, and hello to excesses, co-pays and deductibles, oh my! There's nothing like having to work out whether you've been billed correctly when you're recuperating.

Oh, and it's normally capped too, so if you're not well by the time you hit the cap, you have to pay out of pocket or stop treatment. Pre-existing conditions can make it completely unaffordable unless you get the condition excluded from cover.

If the NHS goes, times will be so much tougher for so many.

I've a mate who has had a private operation cancelled for lack of a bed and is struggling for a new date. I wonder if NHS have taken over more of the private provision?

There are other options, but none of them is on the table. It's been obvious for some time that the Tories' intention is to create a U.S. system that happens on its own without any discussion needed. The NHS will limp on in name, kind of like Medicaid, and employers will increasingly offer private healthcare as a perk. People who don't get covered through work and aren't rich will suffer.

I think it would be sad for it to go but it’s obviously straining atm. Although apparently some headway was being made on lists

I don’t know that people would vote for changes to pay at point of service so who knows what will happen

I don't think you'll get a US style, what you'll end up with is a Canada, Sweden, French, Australia similar model

How? What process will get us to a half sane, albeit more expensive system, when all the government has to do is completely ignore the problem and let the NHS wither and profit-making US style private healthcare boom?

I'm sick to the back teeth of some Staff taking any criticism of the NHS personally.
It's fucked! The "care" system we have at the moment is actually murdering people! We are angry and it's not about you so get over it!

We have experienced the issues facing the NHS first hand over Christmas. MIL was taken to a and e from her care home with pneumonia 7am Thursday morning, she has dementia and severe asthma and had had nothing to eat or drink for days. She was in a makeshift bay in a and e until today and has finally been moved to a ward. She has had fantastic care however despite a and e being in utter chaos. Social care is utterly broken as well which is leading to the issues in the hospitals, people are fit for discharge but there is no care in place for them. Social care should be nationalised and run alongside the NHS.