To dislike my teenage daughter

[Iwishitwasdifferent]

Shes spoilt, rude and downright unkind to me. She can ruin any occasion with her behaviour and just doesn’t seem to care about me or the rest of her family.

Me, my DH (her dad) and her youngest sister who is 10 suffer as a result of her behaviour everyday and it’s getting to the point where we are all on countdown as to when she will leave home. She’s 17 so if she goes to university it will be in the next year or so.

I can see how this sounds and if I was reading it I would think what an awful thing for a parent to write. Background is she has always been a much loved child and DH and I have provided a loving secure home. DH and I both worked part time so there would always be a parent at home which meant DD always had friends back, was able to do lots of clubs and has an active social life. We have paid for her to attend clubs at school and this year are paying for her to go on a school trip to USA. We are not rich by any means so have explained to DD this will mean cutting back in other areas.

I don’t expect any praise or credit from DD for being a decent parent but I have told her I don’t expect to be treated like shit, which we all are.

Went to the theatre on Boxing Day and DD spent the whole time moaning about something or other, why had we got this train and not another one, why were our seats so crap, why couldn’t we pay £14 for a small coke for her, then moaning about the restaurant after, the food was crap, the service was crap etc etc My other DD and I needed the loo and she even moaned about that “why did we not have control of our bladder” this was our first trip to the loo in about 5 hours!

She insults my appearance asking why I don’t dye my hair, why I wasn’t wearing makeup, criticising my clothes and calling DH a “short man”. She feels it is ok to say all these hurtful things despite having parents who love her and try to do the best for her.

I just dislike her so much and am so concerned that this is who she is and will never change. Her personality is just awful. Friends tell me it’s because she’s a teenager but does this mean all teenagers are cruel?

She has applied for a few jobs but nothing so far. I have helped with her CV, applying for jobs, taken her to interviews etc

tbh there is a shortage of staff, places are crying out for staff - so there shouldn't be any reason she can't get a job. what is she applying for?

I don’t favour her sister although I tell DD that the reason there are no screaming matches with her sister is that her sister is nice to us all! She’s a kind gentle girl who gets upset with the way her sister acts.

I believe you on this, but I bet as her sister is younger gets more attention. Therefore behaving naughty gets the older sibling attention, any attention is good regardless.

I had two dds and one gave me a terrible time at 16 and the other wasn't, she was delightful, so why weren't they both the same?

Teens are 80% influenced by their own peers and only 20% by their parens. Thats a generational thing, what are your dds friends like?

When teenagers contempt for parents becomes toxic what often happens is that parents become frightened - they pacify & display fear, rather than being calmly assertive.
There's that mantra - if you want to change someone's behaviour, change how you respond to them. Maybe spend some time spent thinking about how you respond to her unpleasantness? There's lots of good suggestions on here (amidst some not such brilliant ideas). Practice responses (in private). Find the language you're comfortable with and say it out loud:
" I'm speaking respectfully to you, you need to do the same. Thank you."
"We can have this discussion later when you can be respectful"
As others have said - back to basics about behaviour, just as you do with toddler. Assertiveness, not aggression and of course picking your battles.

You really do try to be offensive dont you? no we werent celebrating them being away....but thanks for the suggestion. I have however, plenty of experience with difficult children. Im a nurse and for several years worked night duties at childrens homes. Homes for troubled kids and orphaned kids. So plenty of experience. One thing that didnt work was enabling their bad behaviour by not making them accept they too have responsibilities in life, and if they want decent treatment from others, then they need to learn that basic good manners are required from them.

At 17 it should be starting to be more like a house share than parent child. Have a family meeting where everyone talks about meals they like and perhaps work out a plan to share preparing and clearing - phrase it as learning techniques for when you move out.
Trips is difficult as unless DC have a particular interest going with family isn't cool at certain stages - perhaps especially if dc don't have a great social life. Don't book anything as a family unless dd especially interested. Time to move on.

That’s just complete bollocks though. Teenagers don’t learn in retrospect, and they definitely will not feel more loved with a parent counting down to their departure with an actual calendar. Your advice is terrible.

She's clearly feeling out of control in her life so is exacting control over you.

At 17 she will be making choices for her future and all the worries that brings. Is she going to uni/college or intending to work? I'm guessing you've been discussing her choices?

As said in my pp, she needs to know her behaviour is unacceptable but that your door is always open.

She has applied for a few jobs but nothing so far. I have helped with her CV, applying for jobs, taken her to interviews etc

Have you asked her colleges' Student Guidance for some help? They are very experienced at getting students through Uni Interviews and job interviews and could even carry out an interview with her for feedback purposes.

I really feel for you @Iwishitwasdifferent and I can see myself posting something similar about my middle son, who is now 12, in a few years time. My oldest is 16 and has moments of teen bolshiness but is basically a good kid who is doing well in school, works to pay for some of his own wants and treats us with respect - and in return has a lot of freedom. Middle DS we are sure is neuro diverse but we have failed to get a diagnosis thus far. He is incredibly self centred to the point he can’t consider anyone else’s needs and so getting him to do chores or fit in with family plans is difficult. He also finds it difficult to plan ahead. I coached him endlessly to get Christmas presents for family and think about what they would like - yet because DH didn’t do the whole process again specifically for me he didn’t get me anything. He has a consequence for every episode of bad behaviour including missing out on things like theatre trips - I’ve given away paid for tickets before rather than take him if behaviour has been bad. He won’t think ahead to what the consequence is likely to be even though we are super-consistent - he just isn’t capable of thinking it through. We also have to put more effort into connecting with him and doing the things he likes because he is just harder to like than our other children so I totally identify with advice about acknowledging our part in it and we did have some family therapy that was helpful. I hope we have sufficient strategies in place to get through teen years with him but I am kind of dreading it. I suppose what I’m getting at is that it’s a mixture of your child’s personality and neurological make up, your parenting and the family dynamic that leads to the current situation and you might need some professional help to unpick it and then move forward. The book ‘the explosive child’ has been helpful for us in terms of thinking about the difficulties that lead to the behaviour and therefore pre-empting some of it. Still blooming exhausting though!

what I have found with one of my boys is that giving him more control helps.
he gets a monthly allowance equivalent to his portion of family allowance , with which he clothes himself and organises his social life . There is no extra. I pay for phone contract (the data- phones an older model now) and train ticket. Over and above he has to be prepared to find himself with a job.
there are regular conversations on how much stuff costs. There are no options over tea - well they can choose not to eat it- but I am not a Michelin starred restaurant and I am not funding choices.

it sounds op like you need boundaries in place. I wouldn’t remove her phone as she’s a bit old for that, I would absolutely curtail all the over and above. When she is kicking off at you I would not be engaging. She can’t then feed off the drama.

I think I would also apologise for saying you can’t wait for her to leave home and comparing her to her sister. You need to take the lead in de escalating the drama and conflict , whilst quietly making her more independent.

Sounds like she's in a lot of pain, could be something else going on, perhaps bullying or issues with self esteem and mental health, she is at a very vulnerable age and subconsciously I feel she is trying to tell you something. Saying that, she does need to know that her actions have consequences so I think write off the cash already spent and don't send her on that trip, spend the remaining 40% of the trip on getting her some therapy perhaps?
I do think you should stand your ground re meals and not offer any alternatives and let her sort herself out.
Defo let her do her own washing.
But also she doesn't sound in a good place so don't abandon her.

Haven’t read all the posts but have you tried more carrot than stick? Hard I know when she’s being an asshole but I read about love bombing and I think it’s about having a ‘date’ with you daughter but she’s in charge…. you set a time and budget but say to DD we have £50 to spend on something to do together I’ll leave it all up to you, you’re in charge, but just something nice for us to do. Then basically praise her for everything nice she says and does on the day (ignore any shitty bits).
I mean if she takes you to something she knows you won’t enjoy or ignores you the whole day I really do despair but I thought it was an interesting approach!

my toddler is a right asshole until I actually sit down, follow her lead and just play with her.

in addition re the dinners could you do some meal planning together and on days when you’re having something she won’t like just make a note she’ll cook her own thing and to ask her to add any groceries for it to your shop? That way she’s more in charge?

Hope you can turn it around, if not a bit of self care in order, sounds like really hard work.

It sounds unusual to me. I certainly would not have gotten away with that sort of behavior when I was a teen.

I agree with this. Was she always a difficult child or is it a newish development?

Teenagers can be challenging to say the least, but this sounds more serious than that. I can’t help thinking there’s something deeper going on, maybe bullying or sexual abuse (sorry to have to suggest that).

OP you sound like a sweatheart so I really don't want to add to the brow beating you're getting but that said I think you need a couple of home truths so I'll try and give them to you as gently as possible...

1. You are pandering to her. My 4YO can and does make herself toast so there's no way your 17YO isn't capable of making herself her own food if she doesn't like what you're making so why on earth are you giving her any choice!? As pp have said if she hates your options so much then she's welcome to cook for you all a few times a week. She'll be maybe at uni next year. If she isn't able to cook then she needs to be able to to survive there surely.

2. Ditto with money management. Start making her much more financially responsible. You will love her and support her until the day you die but that doesn't mean you're going to wipe her backside. Part of surviving and even having self-worth as an adult is being financially literate. I wouldn't personally have agreed to pay for such a big trip tbh without agreeing how she was going to help out with the cost eg getting a part time job/doing jobs around the house. I'd tell her soon that she needs to come to some sort of agreement or she won't be going on the trip.

3. She's way too old for punishment. Punishment for punishment's sake doesn't work at any age IMHO but it definitely won't work on an almost adult. Are you going to take away her nintendo when she's 23 and making shitty life choices? Nope coz you won't be able to. Stick to natural consequences but don't be afraid to make these natural consequences fit around your own boundaries. Any time you're feeling inconvenienced by her ask yourself 'is this fair on me?' and 'do I still want to be doing this for her when she's 40?' If the answer is 'no' then don't bloody do it! Make her work out a solution herself. She's almost an adult. I promise you she's capable.

4. I really don't believe that anyone is 'born rotten' and it really makes me sad to see anyone say that especially when it refers to their own kids. I Think some people are born with more predisposition to unhelpful personality traits but if they're guided in the right way almost all will become respectable members of society. Parenting has a strong impact on all children. That's why it's such a difficult job. We cannot devoid ourselves of any responsibility by claiming that our parenting has no impact because it's simply not true.

I hope things improve for you OP. In general just treat her as you would the adult you want her to be and she'll likely come out of the other side a lovely young woman xx

Tighten the reins on this young girl out of the very love you have for her, because she is very close to becoming a horrible adult who does not appreciate anything.

Please speak to the school and share the utter contempt she displays towards you both despite your efforts. Ask them for advice and if they can offer any therapeutic interventions.
Ask them for a refund in light of how volatile the situation is at home and how the trip will continue to enable her horrid behaviours.

I have done this for several families at my school for years. Even the opposite when I removed two boys from the coach before setting off on a trip for homophobic and racist bullying of a student the previous day. I had a massive backlash from one of the families saying I was traumatising their child but he’s since learnt not to be a racist homophobic bully. Schools wants to support families to create better students, not against them.

you putting your foot down shows you are the adult and your are in control of your money and family choices- not DD.

Actually I really don't think you should toughen up on her as think things will escalate.

This sounds like a family problem. We all try our best -however hard sit may be to consider - although you think ( and intended) you provided her with a very happy upbringing, and what you and your DH could give to her emotionally may well have been what your younger DC needed, it may not have been what your older DD needed.

Just because you think you brought her up to treat people with kindness, that may well have not been the way she processed it as a child - she may have felt coerced, for example!! Human beings are complex and treating them like pets by upping punishments is far too reductive....

She is acting up and yes it's crossed the line when sh shoved you out of the way - she might benefit enormously form a adolescent psychotherapist and in families like your's this could involve a few sessions with her, you and your DH.

Jeepers. A lot of very harsh judgements on here of a teen who has what i think has mental health problems.

Kick her out?! No. Get her help.

No wonder there is a huge self harm crisis amongst our teens at the moment. She needs love. And support. And patience. And if anyone can do it, the OP can do it as she sounds like a great mum

I would be paying for precisely nothing for her. No more family trips with her, no USA trip, don’t cook for her or provide money or lifts. Screaming gets blanked. Don’t bother correcting the behaviour if it c in it yes after you’ve cut off financial support, let her act like a screeching toddler. If she tries behaviour like that with future uni housemates, she will end up ostracised.

I think just before launching into adulthood, teens go through a know it all, judgmental stage when they feel that they could go everything so much better than their silly parents. My DD rolls her eyes and complains vocally about me leaving a mess and not being very tidy and says I am a terrible driver (despite never having a lesson herself!)

Oh god my daughter was utterly vile and awful at this age. And violent with it.

Punishment and guilt tripping had precisely zero impact on her behaviour or attitude.

She's 23 now. She tells me she loves me every day. Still a bit selfish but such good company and so affectionate and appreciative of us.

Some kids are just hideous teenagers. I really don't know why. My youngest is utterly indulged and is the kindest, most responsible, best mannered and hardest working teen I know. Both raised by the same parents in the same home. Go figure.

I have no answers, but those people here who believe punishment will make a selfish, entitled, mean spirited and rude teen into the child you want them to be - in my experience it had the opposite impact. It just made my teen feel hard done by, and justified in hating us even more.

I don’t favour her sister although I tell DD that the reason there are no screaming matches with her sister is that her sister is nice to us all! She’s a kind gentle girl who gets upset with the way her sister acts.

This is where you need to point out the identical not the opposites.

So "no I do not favour your sister. You both have equal rules and equal expectations. I'm happy to support to you meet them."

People make the mistake of thinking not giving consequences helps. But actually very often whilst finding the route cause of the behaviour this makes them feel safe.

X got the same consequence as me.
Y isn't allowed to do that either.
I got a detention for not doing my homework just like Z did.

People really underestimate the power of resting someone the same through the bad as the good and how much that makes them feel you love them enough to care.

This.

I would explore before making her life harder.

That being said I would set boundaries as well: no alternative dinner etc.

Would add - my daughter was quite mentally ill and traumatised by awful things that happened to her outside the home. It took us a long time to understand this and understand her. My biggest regret as a parent was being cold towards her in response to her impossible behaviour at home. I was so angry and hurt, and I showed her how I felt. I seriously regret this - talking about my feelings of hurt and frustration, getting angry with her.

What turned things round for her and for us was her having DBT (dialectical behaviour therapy) my husband and I having family therapy by the DBT team, and me having individual therapy to cope with my feelings of inadequacy, sadness and anger at the impact my daughter's behaviour had on our relationship and our family life.