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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To say no - relatives child

551 replies

littlepercy · 30/12/2022 16:35

I'm feeling pretty awful about this so wanted to get some opinions.

My SIL and her husband are a mess and always have been. They have recently had their 4 year old daughter removed from them for reasons I won't go into here. They are hoping to get her back living with them eventually but when that will be who knows (if ever).

SIL is DHs only sibling and therefore DN is his only niece too. His parents are elderly and cannot help. We are being asked to take DN indefinitely to avoid more permenant foster care.

We have 2 DC together, a DS who is 3 and a DD who is 6. I am a SAHM and DH works full time.

We technically have the room here but I don't think this is something I could cope with, I'd be essentially on my own dealing with this as DH would be at work. Understandably DN is showing troubling behaviour too due to all the upheaval.

DH feeling under pressure from his sister and feels awful saying no but understands as it's me who'd be expected to do most stuff day to day then it's really down to me.

OP posts:
Catlady2021 · 31/12/2022 08:59

I do wonder though how many women on here, would take on their husbands brothers child, who had come from traumatic home.

Bring the child who they barely know into their own children’s lives, who they may not be able to afford or have the space to provide a family home to.

Whilst being threatened by their brother in laws partner and blackmailed by the brother in law. With the chances of them causing distress to the family and just turning up at any time.

NameChagaiiiin · 31/12/2022 09:07

Catlady2021 · 31/12/2022 08:59

I do wonder though how many women on here, would take on their husbands brothers child, who had come from traumatic home.

Bring the child who they barely know into their own children’s lives, who they may not be able to afford or have the space to provide a family home to.

Whilst being threatened by their brother in laws partner and blackmailed by the brother in law. With the chances of them causing distress to the family and just turning up at any time.

This ☝️

An awful lot of virtue signalling on this thread.

I love my dear neices, but even with a close relationship with them, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that I am not emotionally, practically or financially able to offer support like this if this were my situation.

Would I WANT to see them in care, absolutely not. But, my own family is my priority. Whether that makes me heartless or not is irrelevant to the fact I wouldn't be able to cope in the OPs situation.

Proteinpudding · 31/12/2022 09:11

I've read the OP's updates but not the full thread so apologies if this has already been mentioned, but -

In our LA the decision would be taken out the OPs hands, they wouldn't (on the basis on info provided) meet the test for taking the child in in the first place.

-wouldn't consider an SGO (at this stage) as there's no real relationship between the child and potential carers, and no realistic prospect of OP being able to safely manage contact arrangements between child and parents (which is very much a requirement of SGO carers)

-wouldn't likely meet fostering regs due to room sharing. Not likely to make an exemption due to other aspects eg op feeling unconfident in supporting child's needs, conflicting needs of existing children and ages not being compatible (very difficult to bring in a 'middle' child in respect of the ages)

-while a family placement is preferred and has to be explored, for a child so young they would want likelihood of permanence. For a single child at 4 there is a reasonable prospect of adoption. While they can't recommend adoption over a long term family placement, there is a case for trying to find an adoptive placement if the alternative is a very vulnerable family placement with likelihood of breakdown that would mean the child missing the adoption 'window' and going into long term foster at 5 or 6

OP by all means talk to the social workers when they contact you, but please don't feel the responsibility of the decision making is all on you.

Astrak · 31/12/2022 09:25

Retired Adoption and Fostering Local Authoity Social Worker here. I support and endorse every point and opinion made in Proteinpudding's post.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 31/12/2022 10:11

Pretending that all social work departments and social workers will stick to their promises is setting the OP up for massive let down and failure

This is something I mentioned upthread; there may well be endless assurances about support in pursuit of SS getting the case off their backs, but one review or even an internal meeting and it's gone

Speaking from experience there could also be a lot of relevant information you're not told. It'll be couched as "confidentiality" of course, but it's just as likely that it'll come under "nobody with sense would take them if they knew such-and-such"

determinedtomakethiswork · 31/12/2022 10:39

If her parents had died I would definitely take her, but as it is I think it would be incredibly hard to because they will be too involved and I imagine they would overstep boundaries.

aintnothinbutagstring · 31/12/2022 11:00

Yes I would have thought the child would still be at risk if placed with the OP due to the likelihood of contact arrangements not being adhered to by the parents - they will think they can come and go as they please and parent from the sidelines.

Appleass · 31/12/2022 11:02

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aintnothinbutagstring · 31/12/2022 11:06

Also, the BIL sounds like a loose cannon, there's no way I'd want any involvement with someone like that or have them be a threat to my family so for that reason I'd say no - the child would probably be best off placed far away from the family for her own safety.

PollyPut · 31/12/2022 11:13

I'd take DN. Cousins (usually) love spending time with each other

Sirzy · 31/12/2022 11:25

PollyPut · 31/12/2022 11:13

I'd take DN. Cousins (usually) love spending time with each other

But it’s not just spending time together is it, that is massively over simplifying the massive changes which come for everyone involved. It’s a bit more than a sleepover with their cousin!

PollyPut · 31/12/2022 11:32

Sirzy · 31/12/2022 11:25

But it’s not just spending time together is it, that is massively over simplifying the massive changes which come for everyone involved. It’s a bit more than a sleepover with their cousin!

Show quote history

Yes Sirzy, it is more than just a sleepover. Yes, of course it's complicated; but I would give it a go

AmyandPhilipfan · 31/12/2022 11:40

I don't know about other LAs but in my LA it would not be a problem to find a foster carer for one 4 year old girl. There are plenty of foster carers who would be willing to take that child. The problem generally comes when trying to place sibling groups or teenagers - these are the kids who are sent out of area or to children's homes.

Anomonda · 31/12/2022 11:47

I was a naive poster last night, I said I wouldn’t hesitate, but a PP was right, I was thinking with my heart not my head, I was assuming the little girl would be more loved with family than in care. I asked for my post to be removed, the OP doesn’t need to read such knee jerk reactions. This little girl needs support, and love is only part of that. OP and her DH may not be equipped to fully support all her needs, or even keep her and their own family safe if her parents are so out of control.

I hope the OP reads through and gains clarity from some of the extremely thoughtful, informative posts on here. There’s always going to be differing opinions and in such a heartbreaking and complicated situation I imagine her and DH thoughts are all over the place.

itsjakeandamy · 31/12/2022 11:51

PollyPut · 31/12/2022 11:32

Yes Sirzy, it is more than just a sleepover. Yes, of course it's complicated; but I would give it a go

Show quote history

"Giving it a go" and failing is likely to have worse outcomes (for the child) than saying no in the first place.

I just want to add to the thread that, despite the negativity towards "the care system" on here, I know some amazing foster carers who have absolutely transformed the lives of the young people they care for in a way that family could not have done. I know some who I have reservations about but who nonetheless seem to have good and positive relationships with their young people and who, possibly because of their somewhat unorthodox approaches, manage to get through to them in a way that others might not. I've personally not met any horrific foster carers. People who choose this route usually have skills to make them good at it.

whumpthereitis · 31/12/2022 12:45

PollyPut · 31/12/2022 11:13

I'd take DN. Cousins (usually) love spending time with each other

The cousins are essentially strangers. It’s not like there is an established relationship between them all. In terms of sharing a room, one girl is traumatized and the other is sensitive, which is hardly a recipe for peaceful coexistence.

whumpthereitis · 31/12/2022 12:47

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I’m not sure why you’re intending that as an insult like OP doesn’t know that, and like it hasn’t been her point from the beginning. Taking the niece on would be detrimental to all parties involved.

Nofurme · 31/12/2022 12:54

It’s super tough OP but likely to be even tougher if you do it. Her birth parents are too close by, have already been threatening and would likely bring chaos into the lives of you and your children. Foster parents will be equipped to deal with the emotional needs of a child who has been in this difficult situation and SS may be able to look at a permanent placement for this little girl. I can only imagine the chaos family arguments and long term problems arising if you try to step in - it may seem the right thing to do but consequences for all the children involved may not be the best. If OP wanted to be a foster parent she would probably already have been considering this.

iamthesparrow · 31/12/2022 13:37

PollyPut · 31/12/2022 11:13

I'd take DN. Cousins (usually) love spending time with each other

But these cousins have never met.

OP has only met the child 4 times.

It is very likely that DN will have extensive behavioural/trauma issues. There is no way this won't impact negatively on OPs children.

There is also no way OP can allow DNs parents into her home.

bloodywhitecat · 31/12/2022 14:28

itsjakeandamy · 31/12/2022 11:51

"Giving it a go" and failing is likely to have worse outcomes (for the child) than saying no in the first place.

I just want to add to the thread that, despite the negativity towards "the care system" on here, I know some amazing foster carers who have absolutely transformed the lives of the young people they care for in a way that family could not have done. I know some who I have reservations about but who nonetheless seem to have good and positive relationships with their young people and who, possibly because of their somewhat unorthodox approaches, manage to get through to them in a way that others might not. I've personally not met any horrific foster carers. People who choose this route usually have skills to make them good at it.

Show quote history

As a foster carer I say thank you and I agree with all those urging great caution. Of course there are bad foster carers out there, no system of approval, registration and checks is ever going to be infallible but the majority of us are in it for the right reasons and doing a good job.

It is interesting that those with experience with children with trauma and poor attachment are the ones saying there are so many things that could do more harm than good to all involved if the OP does welcome her niece into her home. There are a lot of people here with rose tinted spectacles about the situation, from what SS can do with regards to contact with the birth family and what they can offer (they may tell you you'll get respite but the reality is very, very different). Having a child come into the family who has experienced trauma and poor attachment is very, very different to taking in a child who has good attachment, has had a secure, nurturing home and can for some reason no longer live with their birth family.

owdlass · 01/01/2023 22:31

Canthave2manycats · 30/12/2022 21:27

Dear god, it's not the fucking Waltons!!

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You need to wash your mouth out, Missus.

BigglyBee · 02/01/2023 14:01

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Canthave2manycats · 04/01/2023 21:37

owdlass · 01/01/2023 22:31

You need to wash your mouth out, Missus.

Show quote history

Thought it was quite apt Madam!

LittleMG · 04/01/2023 21:39

I’d take the kid

crazeekat · 07/01/2023 23:34

Womanhoodisabirthright

"This. I couldn't send a child into care. Just imagine what horrors await her."

U owe every decent caring non judgemental loving providing foster carer in this country a huge apology. Ur ignorance astounds me.

The horror is what they are being removed from. Thankfully there are genuine caring people who do what they can to better these kids lives. They take these children into their homes after a wee life of all kinds of abuse. They show them life is not bad and not scary and not filled with abuse. They are one of the most unappreciated professionals in the world and massively unrecognised.
Thank god we have them to help our poor abused and neglected children, cos some so called parents don't give a fk about them.