To say no - relatives child

[littlepercy]

I'm feeling pretty awful about this so wanted to get some opinions.

My SIL and her husband are a mess and always have been. They have recently had their 4 year old daughter removed from them for reasons I won't go into here. They are hoping to get her back living with them eventually but when that will be who knows (if ever).

SIL is DHs only sibling and therefore DN is his only niece too. His parents are elderly and cannot help. We are being asked to take DN indefinitely to avoid more permenant foster care.

We have 2 DC together, a DS who is 3 and a DD who is 6. I am a SAHM and DH works full time.

We technically have the room here but I don't think this is something I could cope with, I'd be essentially on my own dealing with this as DH would be at work. Understandably DN is showing troubling behaviour too due to all the upheaval.

DH feeling under pressure from his sister and feels awful saying no but understands as it's me who'd be expected to do most stuff day to day then it's really down to me.

That poor little girl, sorry op I couldn't not have her. I'd consider the affect on my children, I'd be aware of the upheaval but I could not let that little girl go. That's life changing for her. So sorry your in this situation op

Gosh I feel hard saying what I'm about to say but... your children have to come first. That's your primary obligation.

I'm an exhausted mum of two and I just don't know how I could cope with another. And I know that's selfish, but you have to be realistic.

I'm aware of how much disruption, very sadly, children who have had to be removed from their parents can cause and the level of support they need. If it were me, I just couldn't offer what the child would need even with the best will in the world.

I also have dear friends who are the most amazing adoptive parents.

Is there a way to maintain contact without having to take the responsibility?

But then I think of my four year old and it would break my heart to think of him going to strangers.

I have to agree with this. I have plenty of experience, which includes having foster cared in the past. I know if I were asked to do the same tomorrow I would have to say no due to my current personal experiences, even if I didn't want to say no. Is it really best for the child to go to someone who isn't well positioned to fill all their needs?

I would take my niece instead of her ending up in foster care. However parents would have to see her in a contact centre. Wouldn't want them coming to my house.

www.gov.uk/leaving-foster-or-local-authority-care

Care Leavers are supported until age 25 IF THEY WANT IT! If they want to turn down support and sofa surf what are the LA supposed to do? Jail them?

If you are suggesting care leavers are thrown out homeless and penniless at age 18 you certainly do not work with care leavers.

Anyway OP’s DN is 4! It’s a bit premature for PP to be worried about her leaving care. She hasn’t entered the care system yet. At 4 she’ll either have to wait for her parents to get their act together so she is able to return home or she’ll be placed for adoption, if family don’t step in to take her.

Sorry lifeinthehills I mis -typed. I meant I do agree with you. I just realised you quoted someone’s else’s post.

Some people seem to really lack the basic facts of this case that we know of. The OP has two children of her own. Perhaps she doesn’t have the money, space or resources to bring up a niece. A niece that could be potentially traumatised, through no fault of the OP.
The OPs sister in law seems toxic, as does her partner ( the nieces parents). They brought the child into the world and have failed her. They both seem like shitty people.

The OPs sister in -law is emotionally blackmailing the OPs husband into taking in her child. Her partner, the child’s father has been to prison for GBH and has already threatened to kill the OPs husband. He seems dangerous and unpredictable.

It’s safe to assume that if the OP takes th child in, SS will disappear and leave her to get on with it. Meanwhile, the child parents could turn up at their house, making demands and threats. I very much doubt they’ll take any notice of what any court order says- the partner has already got form for going to prison for gods sake.

On top of all that maybe the OP doesn’t have the mental or physical capacity to take all this on and inflict this potentially harmful situation onto her own children.

Id always put my own children first, before anyone else’s and I don’t care who objects to that. These situations can break up a family and at the very least put a huge strain on the family.

I looked after my nephews for three weeks and it was tough, I admit I wouldn’t have the capacity to take them in full time, aswell as my own two children.

And if she ended up hurting you and your children? Or needing a lot more care than you could give?

The parents don’t seem reasonable though. How would you stop them just turning up at your house? Call the authorities? Yes fine, but they are at full stretch themselves. The police won’t come straight away will they?

The child’s dad has been to prison for violence. I hardly think he gives a shit about the police coming, do you ?
Meanwhile you’re dealing with two toxic people at your door causing distress to your family.

Foster care isn't just taking another child into your family and treating them like one of your own. There's time to deal with any behavioural issues, the extra expense, meetings - with school, social services, medical appointments, specialist appointments for things like psychological support or other therapies, contact with parents. It's hard work and if you aren't physically or mentally at full capacity yourself, or have children with needs of their own over and above average, maybe not something a family member can take on.

My SIL and her husband are a mess and always have been

Without knowing the full details it is really difficult to give an accurate answer. But I think I would need to put my children first. I would never forgive myself if the DN became a highlym troubling infuence after already showing troubling behaviour.

Not nice but the onus needs to be placed on to her parents to get her back. If she is living with you that motivation for them to change might not be as strong.

This.
You could give a loving home to a child with possibly the worst prospects a child might face.
I wouldn’t think twice.
Would you like someone to look after your child, if something happened to you?

I hope this is yet another made up story on Mumsnet

Not to mention dealing with family - the SIL is already trying to emotionally blackmail her brother and the BIL is violent and has made threats to kill the OP’s husband… Hardly reasonable people who will automatically abide by anything put in place by SS (as they’ll clearly have ignored things already) and be respectful of the Op and her husband

It's way more than just difficult or inconvenient to have a child that is traumatised, showing signs of troubling behaviour and has been harmed to who knows what extent by her parents. You talk as if all you need to do is just say 'there, there' and miraculously the child will be sweet, happy, settled and you can all skip off into the sunset holding hands and singing.

You have no idea of the impact this child's upbringing has had on her, the long term damage it has done and the ramifications coping with that will have on those around her. Children like the OP's niece need people who know how to deal with this, not someone with fluffy ideas that purely because they are 'family' a magic wand is waved and everything will be okay.

The posters on here trying to shame the OP into taking on her niece because 'family', should be ashamed of themselves.

I couldn't imagine putting my only niece into care because I was worried about the upheaval to my life.

She didn't ask for any of this, she is completely innocent, she deserves stability and people who love her.

Please think about it, even if it's short term.

Say no OP. I’ve seen adoptions go wrong. You have to put your family first

What a difficult situation to be in, you ar right to be taking this very seriously.

Personally, I don't think I would do it and I am mum to my 2 kids through adoption. This isn't just looking after a typical 4 year old. She has experienced a real trauma and this is likely to have a long term effect on her. You are right to think about how this will impact your dc.

My heart would probably tell me to do it but you need to listen to your head. Are you equipped to raise a traumatised child? Are your children equipped to deal with a traumatised child? Are you prepared to have birth parents making demands of you?

If you do decide to do this, please make sure that you have a comprehensive support plan agreed to, in writing, from social work. Please also do some research on raising children who have experience of trauma.

Don't let anyone judge you if you decide not to go ahead, no one else can make the decision on what is best for you and your dc. It's easy to say you'd do it in a heartbeat but raising a care experienced child is not easy.

With my friend her children welcomed their cousin and saw it like having a little sister they loved having her and still do 10 years or so later. There is an order in place that no contact happens outside of SS ....the parents no longer try.
4 isn't a hard age and young enough to come out of things positively 8 is harder....but to find a permanent home is not easy so this child will suffer being moved around from foster home to foster home every few years that's awful and damaging.

Saying no rips the family apart. My mum said no regarding my cousins children. In mums defence it was 2 sets of twin boys 13 months between them aged 6 months and 19 months. She said would take one set if my aunt took the other but aunt refused. Ended up in care then adopted. I totally gey it as my brother and I were 14 and 15 I was about to do my exams.

However if this was one of my niece's or dps neice and nephew, I would say yes in a heart beat. They argue with my youngest who has asd like crazy but I couldn't let any of them go into the care system. That includes my niece's sibling from a past relationship. I would hope our siblings would do the same for us if ever needed.

No you don't my friend's daughter of 13 shared with her fostered niece of 5

There is a huge difference between taking a child who got tragically orphaned and taking a child with aggressive addicted parents wanting it back.

The first case would be hard, but with a good chances for the best possible outcome and majority of the risks coming with the child. In the second case the child's parents have to be taken into account and that totally changes the situation and risks for everyone.

What a sad and bloody awkward situation.

I would not have dn move in unfortunately.
Lots of reasons

1. By the ages the children are all at, the dynamic of bringing them together could really impact them all negatively. DC wondering why you upset their lives and DN resenting your DC for having parents full time.
2. DN will have 100% unfortunately seen and heard far too much in her short life than any child should. She will most likely be different to your kids in that her language may be different and she may have had to adjust herself to manage the poor wee mite. Whilst this is not defiantly the case she may have a lot of baggage and trauma which she would need lots of help and support for. If she needed weekly therapy with a specialist how would you/ your dc cope with the journeys, the waiting, the missing out on other after school or weekend activities (potentially)

I say this with you as the main carer having to juggle 3. Also at home if dn needed lots of support (for example at night. Settling to sleep) I wonder if your dc would become resentful of dn or you would begin to feel bad which dn would pick up on.

1. DN's parents sound awful- you would probably have to see them at contacts for DN and they could always just turn up (they sound the sort).
2. You are asking the question on here- if you wanted to take dn you wouldn't have asked the question above.
3. The resentment you may feel towards dh, as it's his family could cause issues between you both.
4. If it wasn't dn would you consider fostering?

There's probably loads more but these come to mind.

I think the best you can do is have plenty of involvement with dn, sleepovers and days out so you can create a bond and in the future when there is a bond between sun and your dc and you/ dh maybe it's something you could consider if it all feels right.
At least that way you are showing you care and want involvement and hopefully a trusting relationship with dn.

I would definitely say yes to taking her, BUT ONLY IF YOUR HUSBAND AND THE REST OF THE FAMILY KEEP THE MOTHER AND FATHER OF THE CHILD FROM BEING INVOLVED.
Sorry to shout, but I can see a massive issue with husband and or his family perceiving this as a way for the girl's parents to keep her close. Only say yes, if they aren't going to be hanging around, keeping contact.
Imagine how impossible it might be in years to come, having a 'real' mum around undermining you and your other children, just because she 'failed' to be a competent parent.
If you are certain there will be no interference from her biological family, and that there will be full support from Social Services, now and in the future,then go ahead and give her a proper family.

I couldn't imagine putting my only niece into care because I was worried about the upheaval to my life. She didn't ask for any of this, she is completely innocent, she deserves stability and people who love her

Why do you assume that OP is able to offer that more than foster parents?

No one has the right to suggest OP doesn't have a "big enough heart" should she choose to say no.

You don't know if you could give a child a safe and secure home.
Children who have been damaged are sometimes so extremely challenging that good intentions are not enough.
I speak as an experienced teacher of children with SEBD