To say no - relatives child

[littlepercy]

I'm feeling pretty awful about this so wanted to get some opinions.

My SIL and her husband are a mess and always have been. They have recently had their 4 year old daughter removed from them for reasons I won't go into here. They are hoping to get her back living with them eventually but when that will be who knows (if ever).

SIL is DHs only sibling and therefore DN is his only niece too. His parents are elderly and cannot help. We are being asked to take DN indefinitely to avoid more permenant foster care.

We have 2 DC together, a DS who is 3 and a DD who is 6. I am a SAHM and DH works full time.

We technically have the room here but I don't think this is something I could cope with, I'd be essentially on my own dealing with this as DH would be at work. Understandably DN is showing troubling behaviour too due to all the upheaval.

DH feeling under pressure from his sister and feels awful saying no but understands as it's me who'd be expected to do most stuff day to day then it's really down to me.

So what happens if SIL and her DH have another child and the same thing happens and you are asked to have them too. Because things like this are sometimes repeated over and over.

Is there a kinship type of fostering , possibly with a reduced payment?

what a complex situation OP and the fact that you are in much disarray about it whilst wanting the very best for your children and the child is both sad but also hopeful that you’ll eventually make the best decision for you all. I think there are many insightful and on point comments in these responses but several things stand out to emphasize for me. Interestingly, I posted earlier tonight (my first time ever) about my DS who unraveled when he was 14 and he became a drug addict and he’s just this last couple of years turned his life around. The reason I mention this is that we adopted him age 8 after he’d had 13 foster placements break down from when he was put into care age 6. His violence, self harming, dangerous and risky behaviour was off the charts, so although this little girl is only 4, this is still long enough for her to have developed highly disturbing and dysfunctional behaviour which is damaging and distressing for her as well as your other children and yourselves. As for the other argument, that of suggesting that care is far far worse, that too, depends on the foster family and their relationships with the child and the ages of their children if they have them in their family. Care can be a life saver for many children -in my own DS’s birth family, he had 4 other siblings - one is dead from a drug overdose, another is in prison, one lives on the streets and is an addict, and the other has 5 children, 3 of whom have been taken and put into care. None of them except my DS were taken into care, and although our journey as a family has often been very very dark indeed, my DS always says that he loves that we’re ‘on his team’. The truth as ever, is a messy and mixed picture with no easy answers.

Yes, some upheaval to your lives but imagine the upheaval to this little girl. Poor baby, 4 years old and likely passed from foster carer to foster carer. God knows what kind of trauma she will go through on top of the already chaotic life she has led. If this was my family member then I would offer her a home. You're a SAHM, take a little bit of discomfort for the sake of saving your DHs niece from lifelong trauma. I've had first hand experience of the horrors of foster care and wouldn't wish that upon anybody, let along my 4 year old niece if I could offer her a safe home.

Take the child. It’s not their fault their parents aren’t up to the job.
The care system is not care.
But if you do if you do this please set strict guidelines for visits and claim what you can.

And what kind of trauma will be inflicted on the OP’s children by the violent man who has already threatened to kill their father once has even more reason to turn up at their home?

There is not just the Niece to be considered here. There is the safety of three children to consider.

I would also be equally appalled at the thought of this poor 4 year old in foster care, but on the other hand the [seemingly high] potential for damage to OP's existing family?
rock vs hard place, no comfort to be found😟

I have a family member who became kinship carer for her grandchild (later grandchildren) when her DD became involved in drugs. It is not a commitment to be taken lightly. You would need to get clarity on whether or not you are expected to facilitate contact with the parents, what happens if SIL has another child (as happened in my family members case), what support you will get if the DN has behavioural issues.
It's only when you understand that can you consider the long term implications for your family. It may be the right thing to do but it is not an easy decision and you have to balance practicality and emotion.

Gosh so many people here speaking about this poor little 4 year old as a damaged, broken thing that is coming along to threaten OPs happy life. So because she has likely experienced trauma from her upbringing, OP should tell her to get lost and send her onwards to care to become even more traumatised? She is in his situation through no fault of her own. She deserves what OP's DD deserves- a safe, loving home. No, it isn't OPs responsibility to provide that. However, her parents have failed her and no other family members can provide that, yet her uncle and his DW can.

I've got children and a nibling the same age, I couldn't let my sibling's child go into care. The guilt would eat me alive.

I wouldn't be taking the child on until it was agreed that kinship fostering with allowance was the way forward, and I would be pushing for as much play therapy, mental health support, and family counselling to be arranged before the child moves in. I'd do as much trauma research as humanly possible too.

What she needs is a family that will genuinely love her. If she is going to be a burden to you or be second best to your own kids, then please don't volunteer.
Better that she gets adopted by parents who will adore her and be desperate to give her the best chance in life.
I have known some amazing adoptive parents and some very lucky adopted children.

That's not the same. Would you also take your husband's sister's child, coming from a traumatic background which would hugely impact on your own children - with the violent druggy parents ever-threatening?

I'd have any child safe in my home if it meant one less "in the system"

She's your niece and she probably needs you now more than ever 😪

If you don’t feel sure you can keep your own children safe and that they will continue to thrive, you have to say no.

I really feel for you, what a terrible situation.

I’d ignore every last poster on this thread who’s convinced they’d be a saint in an entirely hypothetical situation they’ve never faced. So many empty empty words.

Such a sensible post and from an informed perspective.

Hope your family situation has become somewhat easier - though it never is straightforward with teens!

There is no ‘however’., OP is not responsible for her and that’s that. They can’t provide the home she needs on the basis that they don’t want to and aren’t prepared to.

What OP should do is what she is doing, considering what is right for everyone including herself. It is not in the best interests of the girl to be housed with people who are only doing it out of sense of guilt. It’s not in the best interests of OP and her family to take this on when they clearly do not want to.

Of course the trauma she has experienced needs to be considered. It’s not her fault, but that doesn’t mean OP and her family becomes magically able to deal with the repercussions of this, and nor should they be expected to be.

Taking the emotional side out of it, it's just not true that financial support will be provided .. or respite, outings etc you must live in some sort of Utopia to assume that. I have a young relative with complex needs who is 'entitled' to receive respite care but there is absolutely none available.

And don't ignore the comments that the parents may go on to have more DC and what happens to them? It's not as rare as you would hope to believe.

A very, very sad situation all round.

@littlepercy you say that your DH/SIL’s parents are elderly. What about SIL’s partner’s parents and siblings? 4yo is a very tricky age especially as you already have a 3yo and 6yo. This little girl will be traumatised and her behaviour may negatively impact your very young DC’s lives. It’s not great for her to share a room with your Dd as you can’t predict how she will be with your Dd. Also, you don’t know how long this arrangement will be for. It could be forever.

Tell your DH that you’ll be doing all the childcare and you can’t cope with another very young dc - emotionally, physically and financially. Going into care is not ideal, but this could be a permanent thing so at least she’ll have loving foster parents and therapy paid for. Maybe you could visit?

This post is extraordinarily naive and incorrect about the reality of raising a child who is not your birth child who has experienced abuse and neglect.

Did you read my post?! The support once they reach 18 drops off a cliff - there are 26 flats in the service I work In, two are shared occupancy so 30 bed spaces. How many times would you expect me to see a social worker a day? I’m lucky if I see one a week. For 30 young people who are all either LAC or leaving care.

The support between 21 and 25 is a phone line to a team for advice, no visits unless there is an emergency and it’s requested by the care leaver.

They are dropped off with us, and then expected to be able to learn all the life skills they need, address all their issues, find a tenancy and be able to maintain it all within 2 years.

The post you were originally replying to said nothing about 4 year olds becoming homeless, it said that a high proportion of the homeless population had some care involvement previously which is absolutely correct, and you tried to argue that with your disgusting laughing face emoji. You were wrong, and now you’re twisting it to be about 4 year olds in particular which it never was.

Its like talking to a sponge, have a great day.

In light of your second post OP, I would not be guilt tripped into taking your niece.

She barely knows you, and you barely know her. There is very little pre-existing relationship.

It sounds like her upbringing has been chaotic and traumatic. This will effect her behaviour, and will effect it for years to come. You won't know how until she is with you.
The arrangement would therefore be detrimental to your own children - especially your sensitive DD who will suddenly have to share her space with a traumatised child who will understandably take up a lot of your time and emotional energy. Do not underestimate the impact on your existing children.

A foster carer will have been strictly vetted and had lots of training on how to best support removed children, and will have access to ongoing support.

I think you owe it to your DN to ask social services ALL the questions that posters above have raised and then make a decision.

I think it will be much easier for everyone involved to shown that you cared enough to properly consider it based on all the facts but the decision to take her in or not was based purely on what is right for HER and not anyone else.

Accessing proper support with experienced foster carers, proper protection from her parents and a clean break from everything she has had to deal with previously are probably exactly what she needs. If you cannot give her this then you will have no regrets over deciding to not take her in. Unfortunately this is a time to deal with matters of the head and not the heart.

Such a hard situation to be in.

I think if it was a temporary situation it would be different but I think you are right to consider the negative impact it would have on your own family and the fact that the burden of care would be all on you rather than shared with your husband.

It would be a lot to take on if the child has behavioural issues and both her parents also have problems. You will be in a very chaotic situation for years if they have visitation rights and it will be very disruptive for your own family.

I think I would put your own children first and say no.

Her parents caused this situation so it is also a bot rich for your SIL to be pressuring you.

I think I would take on a child if their parents had died for example but this is a situation which is too complex and will just go on and on for years. Let professionals deal with this, hard as it might be.

Ok that’s really sad. But this problem is wholly down to her parents, no one should put this all on the OP. Im not saying you are BTW.

Honestly, there is no right or wrong answer just what you think is right or wrong. On paper it makes sense but it sounds like you don't want to do it and you are looking for permission from other's to say no to this. That's OK you can say no and if people don't understand that's their problem. A child is a full time commitment so you have every right to decide what is best for you and if you don't feel you could cope than maybe it would be best for the child to be with someone who believes they can cope.