Men in women’s spaces

[BrightSaturn]

Just using this to rant really…

2 times in the past month I have encountered men in women only spaces.

1. I went to a feeding room to breastfeed my daughter in a shopping centre. I walked in and there were two young women in there changing their babies and one of their boyfriends just taking up one of the only chairs just sitting there, sitting using his phone. It’s a small room with 3 chairs in. I didn’t know what to do so I thought I’ll just sit down and get ready slowly and hopefully they’ll leave. I have fed in public but this was a small room so I felt vulnerable and like he shouldn’t be there and I didn’t want to lift my top up whilst he was sitting basically opposite me so I eventually asked if he could leave the room, they looked annoyed but thankfully he did go, after she looked at him and said “it’s up to you”…
2. I went into a changing room in a shop the other day with my mum, imagine a big room with seats in the middle and curtained dividers all round the outside. My mum was only trying on cardigans so really she just needed a mirror but in the middle on a seat was a boy about 17/18 years old. His girlfriend was trying on clothes. I couldn’t believe it! It wasn’t even doors on the changing rooms, just curtains. Why he thought this was acceptable I have no idea. Again I felt vulnerable and this time I didn’t have the confidence to ask him to leave. If my mum had been actually changing I would have probably found a shop assistant but still it’s not fair that we have to ask them to leave, he should not have been there in the first place!

aibu to think women’s spaces are being invaded more and more? How can we stop this from happening?

Had the first situation happen to me and I really didn't care. I've breast fed my baby but also occasionally give her expressed milk so know that sometimes even bottle fed babies need quiet rooms for feeding (mine will not take a bottle out in public! Too much going on!) Not that that was what this guy was doing, but just pointing out that a bottle feeding dad has just as much right to use a feeding room IMO. So not really a womens only space.

Never had the changing room thing happen to me but again I wouldn't have bothered me. Boys sit places too, I'm afraid it happens. If it was a strictly womens only changing room then fair enough but it sounds like you're talking about a unisex changing room? Which is fair for boys to be in too, I'm afraid.

Surely a disabled woman would have a woman carer? You are desperately stretching in your whataboutery to excuse your male privileged thought process that men have a right to be in womens spaces.

You haven't denied that there is a difference. But you are very doggedly avoiding acknowledging that there is one.

@Simonjt lol! You’re a laugh. Anyway, women are allowed to have spaces men aren’t permitted access to - feeding rooms or otherwise. For what it’s worth maybe consider reflecting on the posts of other women on this thread. To me you come across as very mansplainey.

Why does your daughter not being able to take a bottle in a supermarket or somewhere, trump the needs of vulnerable women who need spaces away from men?

I’m not sure where you have seen me write that pulling a breast out and pulling a bottle out is the same?

You seem to think it is, because you think bottle-feeding your daughter gives you the same right to access spaces where vulnerable women have a breast out. You simply can't seem to see the difference.

Lots of people have opposite sex carers, lots of disabled people also leave the house with their partners, if they’re heterosexual, thats going to be an opposite sex carer who can already go into a parents room anyway.

A space for parents isn’t a womens a space, a womens space would have women on the door/entrance.

A parents room isn’t a space for women, its a space for parents, thats why it says parents room on the door, not parents room for women. Every parent (nanny etc) has a right to use parenting rooms, thats literally what they’re for.

It is generally accepted that they are 99% predominantly used by women.

This is the thing:

women who breastfeed need these spaces.
Men who bottle feed DON'T need these spaces.

So instead of barging in with your 'I'm entitled to be here' attitude, why not show some common human decency for women, and refrain from those spaces.

Just because you legally can go there, doesn't mean you should. Any man with human decency and respect for women would understand that fundamental point.

Does baby feeding include non lactating people sitting and playing on their phones? Or have I missed a key element of childhood nutrition?

if not then what’s your point?

No ones right trumps anyone elses if they need to use a parenting room.

That, is where you're wrong. The rights of a vulnerable semi-naked woman breastfeeding, trumps the 'rights' of a male to go there just to bottle feed. This should not need explaining.

Not all disabled women need carers. As a disabled woman, I am pretty pissed off at the assumption that all disabled women will have a carer when most do not. I am pretty pissed off to see this argument used as I consider it whataboutery.

A breastfeeding area is code for women only. A sign does not need to be placed above the door or on the dividing curtain.

You can rest assured that people would have felt uncomfortable due to him being there.

A parents room is not a single sex space.

Women are entitled to single sex spaces, but not single sex parent rooms.

When shops or shopping centres or whatever provide parent rooms with smaller feeding rooms within them it’s great, but it’s a nice to have not something essential that women are entitled to like single sex toilets.

Agreed. At times, I ended up feeding dd in the car. I needed comfort… as a disabled woman, who doesn’t have a carer.

@Messyhair321 is this your only real life experience of mixed sex facilities? I don’t think anyone is saying they are inappropriate across the board, more than people should be entitled to undress in a single sex environment or for example have personal care provided by someone the same sex as them. Going to the toilet in sealed cubicles in a university isn’t really the most pressing problem for most people, feeding their babies, etc is clearly v different. Also personally I don’t think it’s fair to shame older people for not wanting to share intimate facilities with people of the opposite sex.

I know they don’t, which is why I stated that. A parenting room isn’t just for breastfeeding (the jl ones and bluewater have seperate areas inside for breastfeeding).

My conclusion is that Decent men don't want to be in our spaces - IMO any man who does is showing they don't respect our boundaries nor consent & is therefore not safe to be around
This.

I'm not bothered particularly if the breastfeeding room was nicely/logically set out, had some privacy and a man was busy warming a bottle to feed his child the other side of the room. I also accept other women would feel differently.

I would still find it weird if I was a breastfeeding mother and a man decided a small breastfeeding room was his place to chill on his phone, whilst his partner attends to the baby. It's just not something a decent man does. There's no reason to be in the space and it's odd how many women seem to scramble to excuse it.

You are seriously wrong on that front. A lactating / breastfeeding mother’s rights trump a bottle-feeding man’s rights.

My DD is bottle fed but she's so bloody distracted, if I try to feed her in a cafe or other public space, it's a disaster. I prefer to take her somewhere quiet like a feeding room so she will actually eat. So it's not quite as straightforward as you make out. However, if we were out together, I would always take DD to feed myself to avoid DH being in this space. But if he were to take her out alone, I don't think my child should have to go hungry. In this situation though, the OP is NBU, sounds like the lazy git couldn't be arsed to wait elsewhere.

So because you don’t feel it you don’t think it’s an issue 🙄

Interesting and comical … until it’s not because it triggers someone or a predator uses that space or just simply because a woman doesn’t want to share a toilet with a man

And @Simonjt perfectly demonstrating male privilege

In the spaces I've been where feeding facilities are available, it's usually a curtained room with a wide chair separate from the main nappy changing area. Honestly, I think men have a right to be able to change their child's nappy and/or feed them a bottle in peace, and my husband had done both by himself on a few occasions. I understand you were uncomfortable, but that's why everywhere I've been the nursing area was curtained. I've personally breastfed anywhere I needed to, so I really don't care much.

In re to the changing rooms, that's pretty standard and where people accompanying those trying things on would sit and wait, regardless of their sex. I have waited a myriad times, so have friends, mothers and partners. And I don't think the teenager waiting for his teenage girlfriend to finish trying have the store on while killing time on his phone had any interest in seeing your mother's private bits.

'No ones right trumps anyone elses if they need to use a parenting room'

It's not about 'right', though, is it? It's about need. The breastfeeding mother needed that space to feed her hungry baby, more than that bloke needed it to play on his phone.

@iloveorange but the parents room you describe is far removed from that the OP described. Plus the man in the OP was sitting on his phone, he wasn’t feeding or caring for a baby.
Mixed changing rooms in clothes shops are absolutely not the norm. Apart from anything most women’s clothes shops only sell women’s clothes??? Finally it’s a bit moronic to say a teen boy sitting on his phone isn’t interested in ‘your mother’s bits’ (ageist!). If he isn’t interested and not looking then why can’t he sit outside??? Bizarre reasoning

wow what a thread. Just because something is allowed doesn’t mean that you should. I would have felt highly uncomfortable breastfeeding in front of another man in a confined space - a space that I had gone into specifically to breastfeed away from, let’s face it, strange men.

of course we all understand that these are ‘parents’ rooms but @Simonjt - don’t you acknowledge at all that your presence in rooms like this can make some women feel highly uncomfortable?

The male in the feeding room wasn’t feeding the baby or changing him he was sitting using his phone.

The teenager may or may not have been interested in OP’s mum or other women, we don’t know that.

The point is why should it become the norm that men enter these places and just sit there and women feel uncomfortable asking them to leave. We have no way of knowing their motivation for being there. Why would any man who has respect for a woman put her in that position?