Men in women’s spaces

[BrightSaturn]

Just using this to rant really…

2 times in the past month I have encountered men in women only spaces.

1. I went to a feeding room to breastfeed my daughter in a shopping centre. I walked in and there were two young women in there changing their babies and one of their boyfriends just taking up one of the only chairs just sitting there, sitting using his phone. It’s a small room with 3 chairs in. I didn’t know what to do so I thought I’ll just sit down and get ready slowly and hopefully they’ll leave. I have fed in public but this was a small room so I felt vulnerable and like he shouldn’t be there and I didn’t want to lift my top up whilst he was sitting basically opposite me so I eventually asked if he could leave the room, they looked annoyed but thankfully he did go, after she looked at him and said “it’s up to you”…
2. I went into a changing room in a shop the other day with my mum, imagine a big room with seats in the middle and curtained dividers all round the outside. My mum was only trying on cardigans so really she just needed a mirror but in the middle on a seat was a boy about 17/18 years old. His girlfriend was trying on clothes. I couldn’t believe it! It wasn’t even doors on the changing rooms, just curtains. Why he thought this was acceptable I have no idea. Again I felt vulnerable and this time I didn’t have the confidence to ask him to leave. If my mum had been actually changing I would have probably found a shop assistant but still it’s not fair that we have to ask them to leave, he should not have been there in the first place!

aibu to think women’s spaces are being invaded more and more? How can we stop this from happening?

'In re to the changing rooms, that's pretty standard and where people accompanying those trying things on would sit and wait, regardless of their sex. I have waited a myriad times, so have friends, mothers and partners. And I don't think the teenager waiting for his teenage girlfriend to finish trying have the store on while killing time on his phone had any interest in seeing your mother's private bits.'

It isn't standard, at all. If you're hanging around in the male changing rooms, you're in the wrong, and you shouldn't be in there. Just as you should not be encouraging a male partner/friend to come in with you.

It doesn't matter whether the teen lad hanging around in the women's changing room was interested n seeing the PP's mother's private bits. It only matters that his presence was making women uncomfortable.

No actually it's not my only experience & stop with the stereotypical you must be a young un to carry these views. I'm actually not a young person myself I'm nearly 60. Have lived a full life thanks very much & rightly or wrongly I don't feel it's appropriate to shame anyone for the choices they make.

Men don't belong in either of those spaces.
I absolutely hated BF, even in BF rooms, men shouldn't be anywhere near them!

I think it should be ok to breast feed anywhere, it should be acceptable. I remember way back when I had my first child, I needed to feed my child & there were not any designated feeding spaces at all then. No nice cosy room in m&s or Mothercare. Nothing like that. I found a quiet spot in a library & thought this will be ok. I was asked to leave. I will never forget this experience.
It was also a woman who asked me to leave - if this is relevant.
I think people should have the right to breastfeed anywhere & not be interfered with like I was. Yes some want privacy, & maybe there should be spaces for those individuals, I don't know if this place in the original post was considered single sex or private though.

@Messyhair321 you have completely taken me up wrong. I wasn’t under the impression you were a ‘young ‘un’ at all - you’d already said you have a daughter at university??? The shaming I am referring to you is you lolling at the middle aged men embarrassed sharing toilet facilities with young women. I’m not sure what you’re on about when you say shaming people for their choices. I’m just saying women are entitled to single sex spaces, not sure what’s controversial about that

YANBU if it was and is called a BREASTFEEDING room.

YABU if it was a parents room or even a feeding room tbh.

I've been in many of these and there are always changing facilities to change babies nappies, and yes my husband goes into these rooms to change our baby as he is a parent and is just as allowed in these spaces as any woman.

I am a breastfeeding mother, tbh the only time I ever use these rooms is to use a seat if where I am has none available, but I equally think these can be used for bottle feeding as you need to sit to feed your baby still, and many babies need a quiet space to not get distracted. So yea, not unreasonable for a man to be feeding his baby sat in one of these spaces.

@Teaandcrumpets95 what about if a man is just sitting there on his phone whilst his partner feeds the baby? Because that’s what actually happened in the OP

This.

Just as a different perspective, I actually don't think separate breastfeeding areas should become the norm. I understand that some women want the privacy, but many just want to be able to feed in public without the expectation that they hide away as if it is something shameful.

I remember being somewhere with a private breastfeeding area and being directed to it by a fusty old woman when I was sat at my table feeding my child.

No thank you- I'm feeding my child whilst enjoying my coffee. I don't need to shy away as if it is something embarrassing.

I have no problem really with a supportive/ unfazed male being in my vicinity whilst I provide nutrition for my child. I do have a problem with someone suggesting I need to hide away to do it.

I’m not sure about this to be honest. I absolutely hate the idea of men in women’s only spaces, but unless the room was designated a breastfeeding room or female room then I do think men are able to, and should, be in there if needed. A parents room or feeding room is not a women only space. Men are parents too and should have equal rights to parent. I would not be happy if my DH was excluded from a parenting area because he is not a mum. Same as when they put the baby change in the women’s toilets.

I would also argue that bottle feeding needs a place to do so sometimes and actually breastfeeding is more portable and can be done anywhere, whilst bottle feeding, unless your baby takes ready made at air temperature, needs room and equipment to do it calmly.

@Overthebow but the man in the OP wasn’t feeding the baby, he was sitting on one of three seats in the room playing on his phone. The OP had to ask him if he would mind leaving. He wasn’t feeding or caring for a baby. He was just sitting there waiting for his partner

Yanbu.

They set up breastfeeding rooms for women who don't feel comfortable feeding publically. It defeats the purposes if there are men in there on their phones. A man or woman can bottle feed anywhere without exposing their body so doesn't need to be in there. To be clear, i bf anywhere and everywhere and think its sad when people don't feel comfortable to do so, but nonetheless i respect that some people aren't comfortable & thats fine.

The changing room one im less clear on. To me, the cubicles with curtains are a clearly defined space where you get changed so unless the young man was trying to enter the cubicle where you were changing, what's the issue?

Yes that man shouldn’t have been there sitting on his phone. My response was mainly to all the posts saying men shouldn’t be in those rooms, even if attending to a baby.

Ok, maybe it's standard in the shops I used to shop at when I used to go shopping 5-10 years ago, but I wouldn't be shocked by a waiting area with sofas surrounded by curtained changing rooms. They aren't necessarily mixed rooms; they just provide sitting facilities to make the shopping experience less stressful for everyone involved. I personally hate it when someone has to wait for me outside.

I think the OP is being unreasonable because she's not comfortable with changing behind a curtain if a man is on the other side, even if they are minding their own business.

In the UK, I have been to a public gym where male cleaners could at any time walk through the female shower and changing rooms. Now, I think THAT is wrong, but somehow the people running the place didn't think so and stated so in writing on the walls of the premises.

Do people really think feeding areas are for bottle feeders? Honestly? I've never bottle fed but most of my friends have. At the table. In the park. On a bench. Because they don't undress parts of their bodies that men get over excited about. As it happens I've never felt the need for privacy when I breastfeed but I know lots of women who have struggled in public. Feeding areas are in part designed to maintain breastfeeding rates which are still dismally low; often because women find it embarrassing. They shouldn't feel embarrassed, but many do, so we should respect that and provide dignity.

Any man who's partner has just had a baby with all the related dignity issues and still thinks it's okay to go in there is a worry imo.

I never used bf rooms. I too am of the opinion that breastfeeding is nothing shameful and I preferred to do it whilst enjoying a coffee.

But. I totally understand that many women don't feel comfortable doing this. Maybe the baby's latch isn't great and spends time fussing around. Maybe baby prefers a quiet space to feed properly. Maybe mum just doesn't have the confidence or feel comfortable to do it in a public space.

However, as others have said, parents rooms are there for both parents to use and are equipped with changing stations and other facilities. Breastfeeding spaces are what they say - women only spaces. If this was a breastfeeding space then yanbu. If it's a parents roo

m, yabu.

When I had my first DC 20 years ago, many baby shops had designated breastfeeding rooms that were labelled as such and I thank God for that. Baby changing was a separate room which men and women could use.

The changing room issue worries me. It's not just about dignity. Decent men stay out so bad men stand out. Curtains are flimsy, there's plenty of evidence that curtains have been pushed aside in 'gender neutral' change spaces, and we know there's a big motivating factor in sexual assault of women and children: opportunity. So to safeguard, we try to limit that.

It wasn’t John Lewis, it was just a feeding area in a shopping centre. It was a small room with 3 chairs and a shelf type thing and that was it. The John Lewis near me actually has a private room with a lock on the door so I guess that’s for individual use.

thankfully I am more confident feeding in public than I used to be and when I feed in public I expect men to be there (obviously). I didn’t expect a man to be in this small room because although I guess yes, technically a parent room, I thought it’s use was really for breastfeeding and I just text my partner in a panic saying there’s a man here I don’t know what to do. I felt very vulnerable in that moment but my daughter was crying and hungry and I was tired and wanted privacy that day. He would never have come in with me and just stood there, and he is a very active parent.

Changing rooms are an issue, not private enough even if there are no men about anyway. Staffing levels in shops are very low, so I expect it is driven more to avoiding theft (changing old for new, leaving old behind as one example) than anything else.

@iloveorange sorry but I’m over 40 and never in my life has there been a necessity for a man to wait for me on a seat in a changing room. No man I’ve ever had a relationship would have considered it even if for some reason I’d lost my mind and asked him to.
Aside from anything else YOU being happy about it isn’t the issue. You are sharing the facilities with others. You mightn’t understand why someone would have problem with your partner loitering about outside, but that’s not here nor there is it? There is no reason at all why they can’t allow women privacy and wait outside. If you need their opinion on something you can easily walk outside the changing room and show them?
The cleaning staff are doing a job. There is always a warning sign to advise that male cleaners may be in the female changing/toilet area and in my experience they always announce they are coming in before they do. It’s not comparable at all

I can't get enraged about the feeding room tbh. If the couple arrived at the feeding room first and it was empty I probably would have said 'just come in' to my husband too. Maybe he had been helping prepare a bottle or something before you arrived. You were within your rights to ask him to leave and he did as you requested so I don't get the big deal. I also think men should be able to use a feeding room to feed their baby if needed. Yes they can use a cafe, but if a feeding room is convenient (ie they are shopping there already / cafe is difficult to get a seat or get a buggy etc in / times are hard and they would effectively have to pay to use a cafe) and they are using the room for it's intended purpose then they should be able to use one. I wouldn't consider a father feeding his child a 'creepy' stranger. In this case the man left so think it's a non issue.

Re the changing rooms YANBU. Those sorts of rooms (big seating area) can be used as communal changing spaces for women so he should not have been there, doors on individual rooms or not.

In the first scenario, it sounds like it was a parent & baby changing room because babies were having their nappies changed in there. It sounds like the feeding room was the same space? In my local area there are smaller rooms used for baby feeding with doors that can be closed. I have no problem with a man being in the baby change area - I guess the problem is there was no private cubicle for feeding?

@Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious @Eyerollcentral
I have a broken foot at the moment and I was with my Mam, so I sat in the seated area in the middle of the changing rooms in Next to rest my foot when my mam went to try something on. There are no doors, only curtains, they have a lingerie department nearby as well where women will be trying on bras etc!
And they both came swanning in..... I just said that this is a Women's changing room and he shouldn't be in here and there's seats outside.
M&S now have changing rooms that are mixed and I don't go in there to try anything on anymore.

I don't think I've ever had a male human waiting for me either, it was always female shopping partners for me, but I do recall men waiting for other women in the seating area, and I didn't care.

Also, those who think feeding areas are just there to make women comfortable clearly don't have babies who feed horribly in public spaces, breast or bottle. My child gets really distracted, so I can't just 'feed her anywhere'. Also, you're not taking into account that bottles need to be prepared, warmed up or cooled down, and you need clean and clear surfaces to do that. If you ask me, I found breastfeeding out and about a lot easier and hassle free than bottle feeding because I could do it anywhere (my child was also younger and didn't get easily distracted then), whereas I can't bottle feed anywhere.