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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Men in women’s spaces

860 replies

BrightSaturn · 30/12/2022 02:22

Just using this to rant really…

2 times in the past month I have encountered men in women only spaces.

  1. I went to a feeding room to breastfeed my daughter in a shopping centre. I walked in and there were two young women in there changing their babies and one of their boyfriends just taking up one of the only chairs just sitting there, sitting using his phone. It’s a small room with 3 chairs in. I didn’t know what to do so I thought I’ll just sit down and get ready slowly and hopefully they’ll leave. I have fed in public but this was a small room so I felt vulnerable and like he shouldn’t be there and I didn’t want to lift my top up whilst he was sitting basically opposite me so I eventually asked if he could leave the room, they looked annoyed but thankfully he did go, after she looked at him and said “it’s up to you”…
  2. I went into a changing room in a shop the other day with my mum, imagine a big room with seats in the middle and curtained dividers all round the outside. My mum was only trying on cardigans so really she just needed a mirror but in the middle on a seat was a boy about 17/18 years old. His girlfriend was trying on clothes. I couldn’t believe it! It wasn’t even doors on the changing rooms, just curtains. Why he thought this was acceptable I have no idea. Again I felt vulnerable and this time I didn’t have the confidence to ask him to leave. If my mum had been actually changing I would have probably found a shop assistant but still it’s not fair that we have to ask them to leave, he should not have been there in the first place!

aibu to think women’s spaces are being invaded more and more? How can we stop this from happening?

OP posts:
Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 06:44

@Simonjt these were my questions and no I don’t think you have answered either:

  1. Of course disabled mums shouldn’t be excluded, but what’s that got to do with men in feeding spaces?
  2. Do you not agree with safe single sex spaces for women, disabled and otherwise?
Simonjt · 30/12/2022 06:44

MockneyReject · 30/12/2022 06:38

But, as PPs have pointed out, you don't need a specific feeding/parents room, to bottle feed. It's not just a choice between a parents room, or starvation, is it? There are other options in between. Like a cafe, or a bench or one of the many other seats in shopping areas. A new, or just shy/self conscious/struggling breastfeeding mother, has fewer options, and needs that seat in the private room more than either a bottle feeding parent, or a bloke on his phone does.
It's just basic courtesy.

Show quote history

You often do, our daughter generally won’t feed in a noisy area, she wouldn’t feed on a bench in a noisy area of a shopping centre. Bottle fed babies do need their nappies changing, should we be doing that on a bench as well, or in a cafe? All babies need feeding somewhere comfortable and generally calm, thats what parents rooms are for. Seats in all the parenting rooms I have been in have either been booths or curtained/walled off, in lots of them one half is also specifically signed as for bottle feeding.

daretodenim · 30/12/2022 06:45

Sillysausage2 · 30/12/2022 02:42

My husband would accompany me to feeding spaces when my littlest was small. I would feed and then he would change him, I was a bit uncomfortable feeding in public to start so he was my bit of supper. He was very supportive of all women feeding so I’d hate to think of some one feeling uncomfortable

This is what you often see with the thinking of men in women's spaces with a woman.

My man is really lovely, he's not a threat.

I'm not sure why these women think they are suddenly able to verify strange men for our benefit.

The very fact they seem to think they can hand out safe man passes indicates that they shouldn't be!

Because what they're saying is that the fact this man has her as a female partner means he's safe and therefore we should have none of the boundaries with him that we'd have with another unknown man!

It comes up all the time on threads about men in women's spaces who are with a woman.

I honestly don't know whether they're hard of thinking it just so lucky in their experiences with strange men that they genuinely don't get it.

Butitsnotfunnyisititsserious · 30/12/2022 06:45

Cantbebotheredwithchores · 30/12/2022 04:28

Men shouldn't have been there in either situation! You are right OP!
It wasn't a mixed sex changing room, I would have told the man to leave. There were no staff on the changing rooms at the time. I did in next a few weeks ago. He huffed and so did his wife. But the other women were pleased.
We need to protect our female safe spaces!

I would have to. Why does a woman need her partner in there with her? Simply buy them and do the fashion show for him at home.
Men invading womens spaces more frequently is showing a complete lack of respect. But it's not surprising.

Crunchyb · 30/12/2022 06:45

Men using women’s toilets is something my sisters have noticed happening in recent years that they never noticed previously. It has only happened occasionally but the thing that stood out to them was the air of entitlement the men exuded.

I should have pointed out that there was no indication that these men identified as women.

daretodenim · 30/12/2022 06:46
  • I honestly don't know whether they're hard of thinking OR just so lucky in their experiences with strange men that they genuinely don't get it.
Simonjt · 30/12/2022 06:46

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 06:44

@Simonjt these were my questions and no I don’t think you have answered either:

  1. Of course disabled mums shouldn’t be excluded, but what’s that got to do with men in feeding spaces?
  2. Do you not agree with safe single sex spaces for women, disabled and otherwise?

Yes I have, you clearly saw that I wrote that single sex spaces are signed as such, you’ll see I wrote that they’ll have men or women on the door. It has everything to do with men being in parents rooms as disabled mums often need physical support, so by banning half of parents from parent rooms you are also banning mums with access needs. It isn’t difficult.

Simonjt · 30/12/2022 06:48

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 30/12/2022 06:42

@Simonjt Disabled mums do exist you know, why should they be excluded from a breastfeeding room?

A disabled mum is a mum. A woman. So of course she belongs there. An abled man or disabled man, doesn't.

Show quote history

So you’re confirming that disabled mums are only allowed in parents rooms (which are for parents, not just mums) if she has another women who is free and available to meet her access needs. Lovely ableism.

finnmcool · 30/12/2022 06:49

@Eyerollcentral I don't think men have any business being in women's spaces and I can't wrap my head around some women happy for other women to be without these spaces.
I was concerned by the comments regarding door signage, just because it says women, doesn't mean that's the case. Too many companies are dishonestly signing their facilities.

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 06:49

@Simonjt its also not difficult to answer this - do you think women are entitled to have safe single sex spaces? That’s a yes or no.

Simonjt · 30/12/2022 06:49

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 30/12/2022 06:43

A bottle fed baby can be fed literally ANYWHERE. The same is not true for a breastfed baby. If you can't see the difference between pulling your boob out, and a bottle, you are beyond reasoning with.

Show quote history

Care to explain that to our daugher who wouldn’t feed anywhere noisy? I’m not sure where you have seen me write that pulling a breast out and pulling a bottle out is the same?

CysticMeg · 30/12/2022 06:50

Blackandwhites · 30/12/2022 04:19

What about in post-Labour wards in hospitals? Men are allowed there. Because they are parents and as a society it’s in our interests that both parents are equally involved in the upbringing of our children. It’s a good thing for women if the dads are involved too.

We cannot say that we want men to be fully involved with their children and then exclude them from the areas places like John Lewis set aside for parents of babies. If you want a separate area for breastfeeding then argue for that, but you can’t exclude dads from ‘parental’ areas then moan about their lack of involvement with their kids.

most of my views are fairly terfy-transphobe, but on this I say you are wrong.

The distress caused by men on maternity wards is not inconsiderable.

I still, many many years on, remember how I felt being asked questions about my lochia and stitches, and trying to get a sleepy DS to latch, protected only by a thin curtain from random male strangers who showed zero consideration for my needs or comfort.

Simonjt · 30/12/2022 06:50

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 06:49

@Simonjt its also not difficult to answer this - do you think women are entitled to have safe single sex spaces? That’s a yes or no.

A parents room isn’t a single sex space, as I have clearly explained to you twice, single sex spaces will have either women or men on the door/entrance.

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 06:53

Simonjt · 30/12/2022 06:49

Care to explain that to our daugher who wouldn’t feed anywhere noisy? I’m not sure where you have seen me write that pulling a breast out and pulling a bottle out is the same?

Show quote history

I think people are having a difficulty with your posts because you appear to being deliberately obtuse. You do understand, don’t you, that there is a huge difference between pulling out a breast and a bottle to feed a baby?
Also because your baby did not prefer feeding in a less than silent environment you do understand that does not necessarily trump women’s rights to privacy when breastfeeding or no?

DdraigGoch · 30/12/2022 06:54

Simonjt · 30/12/2022 06:17

Is it deluxe? I’m yet to find a parents room that isn’t like that, some also have toilets in with the wall harness so you can have a wee in relative peace with a toddler. A parents room isn’t primarily for breastfeeding babies, its for parents (or nannies, childminders, grandparents etc) to use when they are out and about with children. Unless it says ‘breastfeeding women’ on the entrance, then it isn’t just a space for women, it would also either lead to mums with access issues only being able to leave home with another woman, or forced to feed their children in a toilet. Disabled mums do exist you know, why should they be excluded from a breastfeeding room?

Show quote history

The OP was quite specific that her experience involved a small room with only three chairs. So nothing like the JL ones you describe.

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 06:55

Simonjt · 30/12/2022 06:50

A parents room isn’t a single sex space, as I have clearly explained to you twice, single sex spaces will have either women or men on the door/entrance.

Show quote history

Ok, but do you think women are entitled to safe single sex spaces?

Simonjt · 30/12/2022 06:57

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 06:53

I think people are having a difficulty with your posts because you appear to being deliberately obtuse. You do understand, don’t you, that there is a huge difference between pulling out a breast and a bottle to feed a baby?
Also because your baby did not prefer feeding in a less than silent environment you do understand that does not necessarily trump women’s rights to privacy when breastfeeding or no?

Show quote history

I haven’t said anywhere that I don’t understand the difference. No ones right trumps anyone elses if they need to use a parenting room.

DdraigGoch · 30/12/2022 07:01

MelchiorsMistress · 30/12/2022 06:38

He was doing nothing wrong by being in the parenting room with his baby and partner, but he should have left graciously when asked.

Ideally he should have offered as soon as the OP walked in. That saves any awkwardness on the OP's part.

I don't suppose that his partner checked whether the room was clear before he followed her in.

PortiasBiscuit · 30/12/2022 07:01

I get awfully fed up of the trope that we are all potential victims, all the time.
If the feeding area was being used, then wait ten minutes until it’s empty. Didn’t sound like they’d be long. Of course men can go somewhere and feed/ change their children.
Men in totally communal changing room would be an issue, where there are curtains and he is obviously focussed on one woman trying on clothes then it is a non-issue.
There are times when men in a women only space is a genuine problem, these are not good examples OP.

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 07:04

@Simonjt no you haven’t said it, but all your posts including your most recent, to me, seem to indicate you have difficulty accepting that there is a difference between producing a bottle and producing a breast in public. Or at least you have a difficulty stating that. I’m sure in the real world you are quite aware of the difference. You still haven’t said if you accept that women are entitled to safe same sex spaces, but I think your reluctance to do so speaks volumes. I am assuming you are a man from your previous posts.

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 07:07

PortiasBiscuit · 30/12/2022 07:01

I get awfully fed up of the trope that we are all potential victims, all the time.
If the feeding area was being used, then wait ten minutes until it’s empty. Didn’t sound like they’d be long. Of course men can go somewhere and feed/ change their children.
Men in totally communal changing room would be an issue, where there are curtains and he is obviously focussed on one woman trying on clothes then it is a non-issue.
There are times when men in a women only space is a genuine problem, these are not good examples OP.

Sorry @PortiasBiscuit what is the need for talk of tropes and victims? Are women not allowed to simply say they don’t want men around when their bodies are exposed? Very odd phrasing and reasoning from you tbqh. A woman’s right to privacy is not based on being a victim or otherwise, it’s based on privacy? Same as a man’s??

Simonjt · 30/12/2022 07:08

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 07:04

@Simonjt no you haven’t said it, but all your posts including your most recent, to me, seem to indicate you have difficulty accepting that there is a difference between producing a bottle and producing a breast in public. Or at least you have a difficulty stating that. I’m sure in the real world you are quite aware of the difference. You still haven’t said if you accept that women are entitled to safe same sex spaces, but I think your reluctance to do so speaks volumes. I am assuming you are a man from your previous posts.

I don’t understand why you have ignored (three times now?) where I have clearly said a single sex space would have women/men on the door? The OP called it a feeding room, she hasn’t suggested anywhere that it said women on the door/entrance. Why would I have any difficulty in accepting that taking a bottle out of a bag is different to ‘taking’ a breast out?

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 07:13

Hi @Simonjt do you in general think there are spaces that should be reserved only for women? Is that clearer for you? Not specifically in terms of parent’s rooms, in general.
I don’t know why you have a problem acknowledging the difference in bottle and breast feeding in public but you still haven’t answered the question. It’s a bit odd

Messyhair321 · 30/12/2022 07:15

Mixed gender spaces are becoming the norm I don't think it's an issue but I'm sorry that some do. I do get it but for me I don't feel it.

Dd's uni has mixed toilets I sat outside waiting for dd & watched all the dads going in & swiftly coming out. It was them that were uncomfortable the young people didn't seem to care. Twas interesting & comical at the same time

Simonjt · 30/12/2022 07:17

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 07:13

Hi @Simonjt do you in general think there are spaces that should be reserved only for women? Is that clearer for you? Not specifically in terms of parent’s rooms, in general.
I don’t know why you have a problem acknowledging the difference in bottle and breast feeding in public but you still haven’t answered the question. It’s a bit odd

You seem to be making things up, where I have a written that there isn’t a difference between them? For maybe the fourth time a single sex space would have women/men on the door, I don’t understand how thats confusing?