Men in women’s spaces

[BrightSaturn]

Just using this to rant really…

2 times in the past month I have encountered men in women only spaces.

1. I went to a feeding room to breastfeed my daughter in a shopping centre. I walked in and there were two young women in there changing their babies and one of their boyfriends just taking up one of the only chairs just sitting there, sitting using his phone. It’s a small room with 3 chairs in. I didn’t know what to do so I thought I’ll just sit down and get ready slowly and hopefully they’ll leave. I have fed in public but this was a small room so I felt vulnerable and like he shouldn’t be there and I didn’t want to lift my top up whilst he was sitting basically opposite me so I eventually asked if he could leave the room, they looked annoyed but thankfully he did go, after she looked at him and said “it’s up to you”…
2. I went into a changing room in a shop the other day with my mum, imagine a big room with seats in the middle and curtained dividers all round the outside. My mum was only trying on cardigans so really she just needed a mirror but in the middle on a seat was a boy about 17/18 years old. His girlfriend was trying on clothes. I couldn’t believe it! It wasn’t even doors on the changing rooms, just curtains. Why he thought this was acceptable I have no idea. Again I felt vulnerable and this time I didn’t have the confidence to ask him to leave. If my mum had been actually changing I would have probably found a shop assistant but still it’s not fair that we have to ask them to leave, he should not have been there in the first place!

aibu to think women’s spaces are being invaded more and more? How can we stop this from happening?

If your uncomfortable use a bottle, I'm sorry but a man is no different to a woman. Before DH I dressed to attract male attention because that's normal. Breast feeding under a cover is no different to having lunch at a beach club in a bikini. Infact I think my nursing bras were bigger than I would ever buy a bikini!

I'm not pro breast feeding other than the first few days for antibodies after that expressing and sharing the load is a lot more beneficial to women+baby. Allowing them the freedom to escape if needed or return to work. It's even the simple things like hey DH pop in and change DS + give the bottle, whilst I run into this shop. If you say men can't go into baby rooms so you can get your boob out that isn't needed for breast feeding, your saying more woman who make the smart choice to share the load equally are dragged back a decade to being the main care givers. It's also about the baby bonding with dad and teaching another generation of boys that a baby is 100% 50:50.

Luckily these are baby rooms to protect the shared paternity of the BABY! I went back to work when DS was 3 months and DH stayed home, he was never as welcome at baby groups etc as I was. This needs to change it needs to be that men and woman are 100% equal. To say that breastfeeding is more important than closing the gender pay gap is quite frankly insane. Even the small benefits of breast feeding don't out weight any risk of pushing back shared care even by the smallest margin.

Also if we move to 100% shared spaces it should help woman feel less threatened by men (who can be threatened by a species that has a very sensitive organ hanging out of its body) and help with the perception that looking at a woman in a sexual way or paying her a complement is in some way an insult or a threat.

As a strong independent woman I never ever consider gender its simply Steve, or sarah etc. Me and DH are also a pair we go together and help each other achieve and enjoy life, I do not think he should be told where he can and can't go just because someone else is scared. I also think men should have to accept woman using currently male spaces, tho they might hate that as it makes the line even longer.

The sooner everywhere is simply the WC, baby room, changing room etc the better.

The whole thing is getting off topic. It’s about men is women’s spaces. Women are allowed in women’s spaces. Men by and larger commit the vast, vast majority of sexual offences (that includes taking secret pictures). That’s why women have safe spaces.

I don’t think that’s the key issue here. Only women can breastfeed. Some women need private spaces for all sorts of reasons - be in for religious purposes, PTSD, DV, or just plainly feeling uncomfortable and that child needs to be fed regardless. Having men turn up knowing how difficult it is entitled and unfair. The argument seems to be men need spaces to FF too, but the need for that space is rather rare considering privacy for FF is not a usual requirement and men on the whole are not even the main carers. Yet women are told ‘go somewhere else’ so men can have the spaces instead.

I have to believe this person is trolling. No one can truly believe there is no difference between men and women and that women should have all our human rights and spaces we fought for wound back.

This thread is a dumpster fire. How many times have women been told here that they do not deserve privacy and dignity away from the male gaze? How many more times is Trying going to crow that it is a parent space, not a women's space?

I could not hold back a gaffaw though when I read "women rape women too you know". The homophobia and misogyny is writ large on this thread, wims.

Well both sexes have eyes so of course they are both capable of gawping and taking photos. How many women do you think are convicted of offences relating to taking images in public places secretly? Honestly if you genuinely believe what you are saying you have either lived an incredibly sheltered life or are deliberately trying to mislead people.

I completely agree. I have to believe the MRA/TRA trolls have joined to post on this thread because how else can anyone explain Tryings proudly defiant willful ignorance or people saying a women can rape, or that there is no difference between a man and a woman. This thread will hopefully be read by many others who can see how crazy this whole movement to tear apart womens rights is.

They want to be there because they have fetishes and because they have a deep seated hatred and fear of women. They are absolute nutcases but they are so so few.

I don’t know how they have managed to achieve so much.

@Grumpybutfunny I would love to be wrong.. but I think you are being seriously naive to think different sexes can share the same spaces such as changing rooms etc.

Why can’t we have family rooms/feeding room and breastfeeding rooms? There’s no need for either parent to not have space to feed a baby

The sooner everywhere is simply the WC, baby room, changing room etc the better

so you want to eradicate women’s spaces basically. Lovely.

That would clearly be too sensible.

Instead we must insist that children of fathers who take them out alone go hungry if they will not feed in a public space.

@Westernesse I don't understand why men with fetishes are being given access to women's spaces either.

These types of men are also homophobic as they think that if a gay person refuses them, it's because they are transphobic.

And the politicians seem to be bending over themselves for this group. I'm so baffled!

The only thing I can think of is there must be money involved somewhere.

@Grumpybutfunny ‘Also if we move to 100% shared spaces it should help woman feel less threatened by men (who can be threatened by a species that has a very sensitive organ hanging out of its body) and help with the perception that looking at a woman in a sexual way or paying her a complement is in some way an insult or a threat.’ You are delusional. The problem is not with women having to get used to men staring at their bodies when they don’t want them too. How will you know which man is trying to help women get over herself (!!!) and which is a perv? This is the rapeiest thing on this thread since the alleged lesbian rape. Have a serious word with yourself. Women don’t have to subject themselves to men looking at them.

‘As a strong independent woman I never ever consider gender its simply Steve, or sarah etc. Me and DH are also a pair we go together and help each other achieve and enjoy life, I do not think he should be told where he can and can't go just because someone else is scared. I also think men should have to accept woman using currently male spaces, tho they might hate that as it makes the line even longer.’
Another half wit who describes herself as strong and independent in one breath and moving as a unit with her husband in the next!!! Unreal that you have actually said my husband should be able to tag along with me anywhere and fuck women who are scared. Women don’t need to be scared to justify having basic dignity and privacy. I cannot honestly believe you are for real

And instead we must insist the children of mothers who take them out alone go hungry if the woman cannot breastfeed away from men.

Personally I've never been gawped at by anyone when breastfeeding. Men are most likely to go to great pains to not look. I would prefer they just act normal tbh. I feel more awkward when men feel awkward about it. I remember one day I came to work for a KIT day and I breastfed in the canteen. A lot of my colleagues came to me to chat then walked away when they realised I was breastfeeding like "sorry I'll give you some privacy". I was happy when one male colleague of mine just came and sat with me and chatted away like nothing was happening and I was grateful to him, made me feel like I was a normal person still and not a social pariah.
Just a different perspective. For some women the normalisation of breastfeeding in public is a more important issue than having separate spaces for it and I don't think I would get involved in campaigning for the latter.

They can psychically feed though can't they? In OPs example, did she say she physically could not feed, or was it just that she "felt a bit uncomfortable"? I literally cannot feed my child in a cafe or the like.

No one is suggesting they go hungry, stop exaggerating. Suggesting they feed somewhere else quiet should not be too hard for them to do. But that sensible suggestion appears to be a step too far for these men. Same with suggesting men campaign for their own feeding spaces. It's all too much for the poor men to do and organise. So much easier to infiltrate our spaces instead. Heaven forbid they organise anything for themselves.

@IAmWomanHearMeRoar1

I'm sorry but their isn't, woman can be strong, most men wouldn't like to take on the likes of Claressa shields or Bianca Cook. Infact the only men that would are more likely to be interested in it as a technical match that they can learn from each other.

They can rise to the top like Sara Blakely, but they can also be criminals and pervs just like Cara Dickey. Just because it a woman sat next to you on her phone doesn't make it any less likely she taking a sleigh pic. What she does with that picture might be different but it a violation just the same. A woman saying look at her muffin top is no different to a man saying look at the size of those boobs (the boobs would actually be a complement vs the woman sleigh insult).

Woman need to stop seeing themselves as the weaker species, then they won't be in the position to be worried about breast feeding public.

Men can feed their babies also. Just away from women who are breastfeeding. It shouldn't be this difficult to understand.

Then, as was suggested upthread to breastfeeding women - go somewhere else. God knows how many times I had to sit in my fucking car. Or more fairly, think about your environment. Use a family feeding space but don’t go in if a woman is breastfeeding. Ask for more spaces.

And no, I don’t accept that all women can feed in the presence of men. It’s not just about comfort - some people have very real reasons they can’t feed in front of other men as I mentioned above. Should they not be included too.

Of the people using feeding rooms it’s predominantly women. Men could (and should) ask for extra spaces. Breastfeeding have a legitimate need for them and shouldn’t be pushed out.

It's fascinating to see how a discussion about men in women's spaces always seems to attract those with homphobic & misogynistic beliefs.
There were 2 strands to the laudable campaigns running in the 80s - 90s. One was to normalise breastfeeding with groups of breastfeeding mothers having sit ins in stores / places that were bf unfriendly with others campaigning for specific provision for bf mothers. If you scroll through this thread from 2014 (so not that long ago) you can see mentions of specific breast feeding provisions alongside lots of places where women were comfortable breastfeeding in public.
www.mumsnet.com/talk/breast_and_bottle_feeding/2062333-Help-us-create-a-breastfeeding-map-of-the-UK

How would you bloody know when you aren't even in the UK? The shopping centre example mentioned upthread - Bluewater - there is nowhere quiet! The place is constantly heaving and it's in the middle of nowhere! It's next to a major road and motorway!

Just before Christmas I had to sit outside the toilets of another shopping centre in a desperate attempt to get my DD to take a bottle. Spoiler alert - it was cold, miserable, stank and didn't work because she was so distracted by people coming and going. There was nowhere else, so I had to leave. If there had been a feeding room I would have used it and if my DH had been there instead of me, I'd have hoped he did too. And you know what, I hope he comes across some of you in future and tells you where to stick it while he feeds our child in THE FEEDING ROOM!

They are woefully scarce but I remember 3 Years ago when I was breastfeeding, finding one in Next in the Manchester Arndale. It had a general feeding and changing area, then a separate more private room for breastfeeding. They do exist but sadly have never been common.

There are dedicated breastfeeding rooms in hospitals and shopping centres but unfortunately they're difficult find and now, it appears, colonised.

No they don’t, these spaces are for families, they’ve already got their spaces. If you want a special one you need to ask for it.

Again with pretending every family or feeding room was once a mothers room.

In case you didn't know, womens rights are NOT just an issue for the UK. It's a GLOBAL ISSUE. If a shopping centre is too noisy then it's too noisy for your baby to even be there.

In future I will be telling these disgusting pigs of men where to go, and making sure officials, womens groups, and a big burly brother knows about them. So we can all tell these abusive men to FUCK OFF. And I hope the same happens to your partner because he'll deserve it. Womens spaces are not yours to give away just because you can't manage to parent properly!!!