Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Men in women’s spaces

860 replies

BrightSaturn · 30/12/2022 02:22

Just using this to rant really…

2 times in the past month I have encountered men in women only spaces.

  1. I went to a feeding room to breastfeed my daughter in a shopping centre. I walked in and there were two young women in there changing their babies and one of their boyfriends just taking up one of the only chairs just sitting there, sitting using his phone. It’s a small room with 3 chairs in. I didn’t know what to do so I thought I’ll just sit down and get ready slowly and hopefully they’ll leave. I have fed in public but this was a small room so I felt vulnerable and like he shouldn’t be there and I didn’t want to lift my top up whilst he was sitting basically opposite me so I eventually asked if he could leave the room, they looked annoyed but thankfully he did go, after she looked at him and said “it’s up to you”…
  2. I went into a changing room in a shop the other day with my mum, imagine a big room with seats in the middle and curtained dividers all round the outside. My mum was only trying on cardigans so really she just needed a mirror but in the middle on a seat was a boy about 17/18 years old. His girlfriend was trying on clothes. I couldn’t believe it! It wasn’t even doors on the changing rooms, just curtains. Why he thought this was acceptable I have no idea. Again I felt vulnerable and this time I didn’t have the confidence to ask him to leave. If my mum had been actually changing I would have probably found a shop assistant but still it’s not fair that we have to ask them to leave, he should not have been there in the first place!

aibu to think women’s spaces are being invaded more and more? How can we stop this from happening?

OP posts:
Cocolatte24 · 30/12/2022 14:59

BrightSaturn · 30/12/2022 02:22

Just using this to rant really…

2 times in the past month I have encountered men in women only spaces.

  1. I went to a feeding room to breastfeed my daughter in a shopping centre. I walked in and there were two young women in there changing their babies and one of their boyfriends just taking up one of the only chairs just sitting there, sitting using his phone. It’s a small room with 3 chairs in. I didn’t know what to do so I thought I’ll just sit down and get ready slowly and hopefully they’ll leave. I have fed in public but this was a small room so I felt vulnerable and like he shouldn’t be there and I didn’t want to lift my top up whilst he was sitting basically opposite me so I eventually asked if he could leave the room, they looked annoyed but thankfully he did go, after she looked at him and said “it’s up to you”…
  2. I went into a changing room in a shop the other day with my mum, imagine a big room with seats in the middle and curtained dividers all round the outside. My mum was only trying on cardigans so really she just needed a mirror but in the middle on a seat was a boy about 17/18 years old. His girlfriend was trying on clothes. I couldn’t believe it! It wasn’t even doors on the changing rooms, just curtains. Why he thought this was acceptable I have no idea. Again I felt vulnerable and this time I didn’t have the confidence to ask him to leave. If my mum had been actually changing I would have probably found a shop assistant but still it’s not fair that we have to ask them to leave, he should not have been there in the first place!

aibu to think women’s spaces are being invaded more and more? How can we stop this from happening?

A feeding room isn’t a woman’s only space. If it’s an exclusive breastfeeding room, fine... but Dad’s need to feed babies too

lawandgin · 30/12/2022 14:59

CountZacular · 30/12/2022 14:56

Not in the slightest bothered because women (straight or gay) don’t commit sexual assaults on the whole. Men do. Women also understand the need of privacy for their body, regardless if they are lesbians, because men are indiscriminate in their harassment to women. And finally men aren’t motivated to attack women by finding breasts ‘sexually attractive’. They do it for reasons of power and control - for reasons of abuse, not attractive.

It is a grossly homophobic line of questioning tbh.

Show quote history

Homophobic? You have got to be kidding me! From the person massively generalising the thought process of gay women as a group? 🤣

As it happens, I actually know a woman who was raped by another woman.

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 15:01

cosystripysocks · 30/12/2022 14:55

You said "how is a woman supposed to feel comfortable" as if it's unthinkable that a woman would feel comfortable breastfeeding in front of men. How do you feel about movements to make people accepting of women breastfeeding in public spaces? That's where most of the campaigning has been in recent times. I feel like a movement to take it back into private rooms so that other people don't have to look at it would be a huge step back.

Show quote history

@cosystripysocks sorry why on earth do you think women should have to get used to breastfeeding in public. Do you think all women who want to breast feed in a non public areas are ashamed of their breasts or breastfeeding? Why do you think women shouldn’t have the privacy to breast feed children that has been taken for granted as preferential for women and babies for hundreds of years? It’s a really creepy view.

cosystripysocks · 30/12/2022 15:01

Willowswood · 30/12/2022 14:58

@cosystripysocks

But surely most women don't feel comfortable getting their breasts out to breastfeed in front of men, or are you saying they do, or should?

Every breastfeeding woman I know just does so wherever they are. There's more difficulty in the very early days before you've gotten used to it, during that time I did mostly keep trips out very short. But in my experience when someone breastfeeds on a bench or something for the first time that's like a milestone and something to be proud of.

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 15:02

lawandgin · 30/12/2022 14:59

Homophobic? You have got to be kidding me! From the person massively generalising the thought process of gay women as a group? 🤣

As it happens, I actually know a woman who was raped by another woman.

Show quote history

Omg you know one person something happened to?! You totally win the argument! Well done for using a rape as a real argument winner 🤯

CountZacular · 30/12/2022 15:02

lawandgin · 30/12/2022 14:59

Homophobic? You have got to be kidding me! From the person massively generalising the thought process of gay women as a group? 🤣

As it happens, I actually know a woman who was raped by another woman.

Show quote history

Unlikely as rape requires a penis in the UK.

And yes, trying to use a lesbian couple as some kind of ‘gotcha’ is homophobic. I’m am no less worried about a lesbian woman than I am a straight women because they are still women. It is you who is trying to imply a lesbian woman would have different motivations to a straight woman. That is homophobic and unless you are going to stick to the issue of men in women’s spaces, I will no longer engage with you.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 30/12/2022 15:03

It would be better for people to stop breastfeeding than push more and more onto woman

what? Sorry I don’t understand….It would be better for women to stop breastfeeding than push more and more onto woman.

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 30/12/2022 15:03

Imagine actually believing it's actually anatomically possible for a woman to rape another woman.

lawandgin · 30/12/2022 15:03

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 15:02

Omg you know one person something happened to?! You totally win the argument! Well done for using a rape as a real argument winner 🤯

Show quote history

That is not what that was and don't even try and say it was. That's low.

Tryingformore1 · 30/12/2022 15:06

emilyelf · 30/12/2022 14:59

Any decent man would feel uncomfortable for making other women feel uncomfortable. This isn't the case where a dad was campaigning for changing facilities to be made available outside of female toilets were they couldn't access it. We are talking about men following their partners to bf facilities to "support" them. I find these men quite controlling and actually have known a couple of women who had to flee D&V and one of the patterns I've noticed from the men in these relationships where they followed and waited in the rooms, waited outside the toilets but since having the "family rooms" meant they can flood in there too as there is a toilet there the woman can use.

But we are not talking about men following into BF facilities,

These are family or feeding rooms, not BF rooms.

GregoryFluff · 30/12/2022 15:06

disneydreaming101 · 30/12/2022 13:43

@IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 ok but that's not what is being debated. You said that parent/family rooms were mothers rooms which in the context of what everyone is discussing (shopping centre) this is not the case.

You are quite right that in work places they should provide a nursing room/space but in the article you just shared it does also say this can be a first aid room etc so not a 'mothers' room.

What myself and others were arguing is that shopping centres do not in my experience have 'mothers' rooms and never did. They are family rooms/baby facilities which all genders can use!

Our local shopping centre (town, not city, NE) has a little room opposite the baby change facilities, lockable, just enough space for buggy, small wipe-able couch, for breast feeding
I guess technically it could be used to bottle feed, but not sure why you would
Dd was breast fed via pumping. I have used it to express (much less discreet than breastfeeding), but if I had a bag of breast milk on me, I never would have dreamt of using it to sit down and make a bottle and take the space away from a woman that wasn't comfortable, for whatever reason, to expose herself
Same shopping centre has a free small toddler, soft play area. In it is a big screen covering a couch in the corner with a specific sign saying that it is provided for breastfeeding. Baby change is a separate little cubicle, so either sex parent can use it
Didn't think it was that unusual to be honest

cosystripysocks · 30/12/2022 15:07

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 15:01

@cosystripysocks sorry why on earth do you think women should have to get used to breastfeeding in public. Do you think all women who want to breast feed in a non public areas are ashamed of their breasts or breastfeeding? Why do you think women shouldn’t have the privacy to breast feed children that has been taken for granted as preferential for women and babies for hundreds of years? It’s a really creepy view.

Show quote history

I'm just saying that generally they do get used to it! It would be nice if private spaces were available for women who that is important to, but that's never going to happen in the vast majority of public spaces e.g. restaurants that would have no spare space for it. So while that's an issue, yes, for women who feel uncomfortable breastfeeding in public, I don't see much of a solution beyond continuing to make public spaces welcoming for women who breastfeed in them. And I find your outrage strange considering that breastfeeding in public is a completely normal thing.

lawandgin · 30/12/2022 15:07

CountZacular · 30/12/2022 15:02

Unlikely as rape requires a penis in the UK.

And yes, trying to use a lesbian couple as some kind of ‘gotcha’ is homophobic. I’m am no less worried about a lesbian woman than I am a straight women because they are still women. It is you who is trying to imply a lesbian woman would have different motivations to a straight woman. That is homophobic and unless you are going to stick to the issue of men in women’s spaces, I will no longer engage with you.

Show quote history

👋

This thread is totally nuts. I've been here a while but dear god, I've never seen one quite this level of crazy.

atomsgirl · 30/12/2022 15:08

@Westernesse Thanks for your perspective.

I think most males are fine. However, the small section of men trying to get into women's spaces with such ferocity makes me wonder exactly why they want to be there.

I don't think it helps that in general, women tend to try to 'be nice'. But this is one situation where we need to be saying a clear 'no' regardless of what label we are given for saying so.

Tryingformore1 · 30/12/2022 15:09

Willowswood · 30/12/2022 14:58

@cosystripysocks

But surely most women don't feel comfortable getting their breasts out to breastfeed in front of men, or are you saying they do, or should?

This is the issue here, you’re conflating your views and feeling with the masses.

1/3 of women feel uncomfortable BF in public, and not just because of men, so the numbers only uncomfortable due to men will be even less than that.

A minority of women feel uncomfortable, not most.

If that minority want private, sex segregated spaces they can request them.

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 30/12/2022 15:10

Asking how women feel about lesbians (hint: lesbians are WOMEN) in womens spaces.
Suggesting women can rape women.

Yes, this thread gone way past batshit crazy jumped the shark. More like jumped the f.cking ozone layer.

minimarshmallowsmore · 30/12/2022 15:10

CountZacular · 30/12/2022 15:02

Unlikely as rape requires a penis in the UK.

And yes, trying to use a lesbian couple as some kind of ‘gotcha’ is homophobic. I’m am no less worried about a lesbian woman than I am a straight women because they are still women. It is you who is trying to imply a lesbian woman would have different motivations to a straight woman. That is homophobic and unless you are going to stick to the issue of men in women’s spaces, I will no longer engage with you.

Show quote history

Rape is getting off topic I think but men and women are equally capable of gawping or secretly taking photos which is probably the type of harassment that could potentially come from breastfeeding in front of other people.

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 15:11

lawandgin · 30/12/2022 15:03

That is not what that was and don't even try and say it was. That's low.

Show quote history

You have introduced this info - which is not your story to tell - to try and use it as an argument winner. THAT’S low.

Tryingformore1 · 30/12/2022 15:11

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 30/12/2022 15:10

Asking how women feel about lesbians (hint: lesbians are WOMEN) in womens spaces.
Suggesting women can rape women.

Yes, this thread gone way past batshit crazy jumped the shark. More like jumped the f.cking ozone layer.

A bit rich considering you’re the one who took it to bat shit.

And still are despite being shown to be wrong.

lawandgin · 30/12/2022 15:12

minimarshmallowsmore · 30/12/2022 15:10

Rape is getting off topic I think but men and women are equally capable of gawping or secretly taking photos which is probably the type of harassment that could potentially come from breastfeeding in front of other people.

Show quote history

Praise the Lord, someone who gets it!

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 30/12/2022 15:12

Women do not need to 'campaign' for separate spaces. We already had that and men invaded and colonised them. If men want to FF, they need to campaign for them. Not take our spaces which were never there to use.

atomsgirl · 30/12/2022 15:13

@minimarshmallowsmore I can honestly say that I have never been gawped by another woman. Men, yes. Women, no.

IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 · 30/12/2022 15:13

Tryingformore1 · 30/12/2022 15:11

A bit rich considering you’re the one who took it to bat shit.

And still are despite being shown to be wrong.

Show quote history

No, you're the one who took it to batshit level even when you were comprehensively proven wrong - and you know it, but don't have the guts or honour to admit you were will and truly proven wrong.

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 15:14

cosystripysocks · 30/12/2022 15:07

I'm just saying that generally they do get used to it! It would be nice if private spaces were available for women who that is important to, but that's never going to happen in the vast majority of public spaces e.g. restaurants that would have no spare space for it. So while that's an issue, yes, for women who feel uncomfortable breastfeeding in public, I don't see much of a solution beyond continuing to make public spaces welcoming for women who breastfeed in them. And I find your outrage strange considering that breastfeeding in public is a completely normal thing.

Show quote history

Women don’t have to get used to anything for the convenience of others. Of course breastfeeding in public is normal. But many women prefer a private space. Your idea is tell them they are wrong and convince to just get over it. Utterly misogynistic

lawandgin · 30/12/2022 15:14

Eyerollcentral · 30/12/2022 15:11

You have introduced this info - which is not your story to tell - to try and use it as an argument winner. THAT’S low.

Show quote history

You need to calm down, no one is telling any stories. It's a mention because it was suggested this doesn't happen, when in fact it does and it did. I will admit to having used the wrong terminology legally, but come on, you know the point of what was said.