Men in women’s spaces

[BrightSaturn]

Just using this to rant really…

2 times in the past month I have encountered men in women only spaces.

1. I went to a feeding room to breastfeed my daughter in a shopping centre. I walked in and there were two young women in there changing their babies and one of their boyfriends just taking up one of the only chairs just sitting there, sitting using his phone. It’s a small room with 3 chairs in. I didn’t know what to do so I thought I’ll just sit down and get ready slowly and hopefully they’ll leave. I have fed in public but this was a small room so I felt vulnerable and like he shouldn’t be there and I didn’t want to lift my top up whilst he was sitting basically opposite me so I eventually asked if he could leave the room, they looked annoyed but thankfully he did go, after she looked at him and said “it’s up to you”…
2. I went into a changing room in a shop the other day with my mum, imagine a big room with seats in the middle and curtained dividers all round the outside. My mum was only trying on cardigans so really she just needed a mirror but in the middle on a seat was a boy about 17/18 years old. His girlfriend was trying on clothes. I couldn’t believe it! It wasn’t even doors on the changing rooms, just curtains. Why he thought this was acceptable I have no idea. Again I felt vulnerable and this time I didn’t have the confidence to ask him to leave. If my mum had been actually changing I would have probably found a shop assistant but still it’s not fair that we have to ask them to leave, he should not have been there in the first place!

aibu to think women’s spaces are being invaded more and more? How can we stop this from happening?

It WAS a space for women only. That is what people are missing! It was created by women for women. That it has suddenly changed from Mothers Rooms, to all inclusive doesn't change the fact that it was originally a space for women only. It was unilaterally changed without any input from women. It was taken from us. Men, are the ones that should campaign for their own feeding/changing spaces, instead of colonising ours. Telling women, whose foresisters fought blood and sweat and tears for these spaces FOR WOMEN to 'go campaign for spaces' that we already had, is a massive insult and taking the piss. It reminds me of that woman who went to a rape survivor centre, that was built by women for women, that has no longer women only services after men colonised to 'go build your own'. The irony is women DID build it, then kicked out of it. It's a bloody insult to say we should campaign to get back spaces taken from us, when the men are the ones who should have campaigned for their own, not invaded and colonised ours.

It might be considered a 'parents room' now, but it always was a MOTHERS ROOM originally. We need to go back to calling these spaces mothers rooms. Not parents rooms. Let the men campaign and create their own parents rooms.

Fab post IAmWomanHearMeRoar1

it was originally a space for women only. It was unilaterally changed without any input from women. It was taken from us. Men, are the ones that should campaign for their own feeding/changing spaces, instead of colonising ours. Telling women, whose foresisters fought blood and sweat and tears for these spaces FOR WOMEN to 'go campaign for spaces' that we already had, is a massive insult and taking the piss.

Very well said. It boils my blood that people keep saying 'but it's not a womans space, it's a parents room'. It ORIGINALLY WAS A WOMANS SPACE! That's the point people on here are not getting! It was originally a womans space that has been taken away from us. I don't care what they call it now, it was always a Mothers Room and imo always will be a Mothers Room.

It is a womans space. It was never meant to be a 'parents' room'.

I have no idea of the history of something called a 'mothers room', personally I have literally never even seen a parents room like the OP describes, only baby change rooms. But if there was something called a 'mothers room' for general baby care purposes and it was changed to 'parents room' this is surely a progressive feminist step? Why should women always be expected to do all the parenting/be the only ones to take babies out?

It wasn’t a space for women, multiple posters have already corrected you on this so not sure why you keep posting the same incorrect comment.

Why do we need to go back to calling them mothers rooms? They’ve moved with the times, which can only be a good thing, look how many women are impacted by being expected to bear the brunt of the child rearing, spaces like these are a great step to ensuring fathers are able to feed in a quiet space and change just like women are able to.

I’d also challenge your notion of there being mothers rooms in the first place, when having my first 12 years ago there were no rooms in general, mothers or not, then feeding rooms became more common about 5/6 years ago and have expanded massively from there.

Bottle feeding can be done anywhere, so a father bottle feeding a baby wouldn’t need the room.

Breastfeeding CAN of course be done anywhere, but the point of a breastfeeding room is to allow women who don’t feel comfortable bfing in public to have somewhere to go. Some women don’t feel able to do so for religious reasons, as well as many other reasons, so those women would otherwise have the choice of:

1. never leave the house
2. Not bf when they otherwise wanted to
3. let the baby go hungry when out

None of which is a good option.

Some women are at risk of Dv if they showed their breasts or in some cases any part of their body in front of men.

Even if there was arguably a reason why a man needed briefly to be in their to assist his partner (or friend, relative, whatever) he should especially not be on his phone - his phone should be out of sight entirely. If phones can be out in a bf room there’s the possibility of photos being taken etc which is doubly uncomfortable.

It would be fab if it was factually accurate, but it’s not, as pointed out by many posters on this chain

Absolutely this.

It's happened in the changing rooms of my local gym - 'girl dick' swinging around for all to see - and the usual namby pamby excuses about 'inclusivity' from the gym.

So the complainant took her complaint to the national media, and kicked up as big a stink about it as she could. The EA was quoted, together with the proviso in that Act for single SEX spaces where these are necessary.

I still attend that gym. Interestingly enough, they take huge care if a male worker needs to attend that space for any reason: a member of the gym staff will come in and give notice so that women can cover up if necessary, or know there's a male present if they need to come out of the showers or sauna.

If I see this, I, too, will be making as big a noise as humanly possible. Complaints to gym, reassurances that they'll cease with that practice, if no luck there, MP, gym franchise's Head Office, local media, national media, local women's rights support networks.

If they're intent on riding roughshod over women's rights, dignity and safety, I'm intent on making this as difficult for them as I possibly can, within the confines of the actual law (not the law as Stonewall et al would like it to be). And I'll quote it at them until I'm blue in the face if necessary.

OP - kudos to you for challenging the bloke in the first scenario. I would have, too.

You clearly haven’t had a baby who can’t focus on FF without being away from crowds.

Also family rooms are often where the changing and bottle warming facilities are located in most shopping centres and retail parks

It might be ‘progressive’ but progressive isn’t always positive. What’s positive about men taking over rooms designated for breastfeeding to bottle feed? Positive progression would be men having their own spaces or more neutral spaces on as well as private spaces for women to breastfeed.

I ask again - where do women unable or unwilling to breastfeed in public areas go when the private spaces are filled with men?

There were countless local campaigns waged by women for these rooms to be established - John Lewis being a regular target! When I became a mother I finally appreciated the need for them and used them regularly.
Breastfeeding is such a unique experience - a challenge to establish in the first place that it defies belief that society has enabled this toxic men's rights movement to successfully eradicate provision for breastfeeding mothers.

The reason why it is not a feminist step is because it means men in womens spaces where women are in a partial state of undress, with their tits out. It's no more 'progressive' than remove single sex toilets or spaces.

Have change room facilities/feeding facilities for men in the mens area. There should be mothers facilities, and fathers facilities. Having men watching women in a state of undress with their tit out is regressive and unfeminist. Feminism means recognising privacy and dignity for women.

‘I ask again - where do women unable or unwilling to breastfeed in public areas go when the private spaces are filled with men?’

I used to spend hours BF in my car. There should have been other options.

As I've already corrected this numerous times before, they were ORIGINALLY mothers rooms, until about 5-10 years ago. It IS a space for women, it ALWAYS WAS meant to be a space for women.

It was never meant to be a 'parents' room. This is not what our foresister feminists fought for.

I hope I don't have to keep going over that point. Just as womens battered wives shelters were originally for.......women, mothers rooms were originally for.....women. It's history, it's factual. Men colonised and called it a 'parents room'.

That might be what feminism means to you, but it’s not the standard or dictionary definition by a long shot

As have many posted pointed out, it IS factual that it was a mothers room. You are misinformed. Your misinformed post has been corrected many times now.

It doesn’t matter if you’ve posted it before, you’re still factually wrong.

They’re not spaces for women, how do you know this room mentioned in the OP was even around 10-30 years ago?

Most of the feeding rooms are very new.

These aren’t mothers or womens rooms, it’s not invading a womens space to be in a feeding or parent room as someone feeding or being a parent.

‘I ask again - where do women unable or unwilling to breastfeed in public areas go when the private spaces are filled with men?’
I don't know really, it's an issue for women who don't like to breastfeed in front of other people. The vast, vast, vast majority of public spaces don't have a parents/feeding room at all though and will not ever get one, let alone separate parenting rooms for different parenting needs. That's why most of the focus is on trying to normalise being able to breastfeed in public anywhere without being harassed for it. As someone who breastfed for years, I feel most comfortable in a place where it's made apparent that you're perfectly welcome to breastfeed anywhere. I never would have wanted a private space for it because that would feel like being shut away.

@IAmWomanHearMeRoar1 are you from the UK? I only ask as did a quick Google of a mothers room and it seems a US movement?

I've never ever come across a 'mothers' room in the UK only ever baby facilities or parent/family room?

I think the issue is, no matter what it was originally, the OPs AIBU is based on what it is now, which is what people are answering.

Whether they should be reverted to mothers rooms is a different discussion.

Then what is your definition of feminism, if it doesn't mean advocating for womens human rights, safety and dignity? Because I dare say your idea of feminism is not the same as 99% of the rest of us.

Same here, my eldest is now nearly a teenager and I’ve never seen a mothers room, I’ve actually only ever seen feeding or family rooms in the past 5 or 6 years, more of them in the last handful of years too

No, as many others have said, you, are misinformed and factually wrong. These were called mothers rooms originally. Go look up the history. You are wrong, and deeply ill-informed.

Just googled that at your suggestion. It sounds like they're a thing in American workplaces, for pumping. Because they don't have maternity leave there.

They are called different names depending on location, such as lactating room or nursing room, and also mothers rooms at international airports. The point is that they were for breast feeding or nursing women. They were never for men.