Men in women’s spaces

[BrightSaturn]

Just using this to rant really…

2 times in the past month I have encountered men in women only spaces.

1. I went to a feeding room to breastfeed my daughter in a shopping centre. I walked in and there were two young women in there changing their babies and one of their boyfriends just taking up one of the only chairs just sitting there, sitting using his phone. It’s a small room with 3 chairs in. I didn’t know what to do so I thought I’ll just sit down and get ready slowly and hopefully they’ll leave. I have fed in public but this was a small room so I felt vulnerable and like he shouldn’t be there and I didn’t want to lift my top up whilst he was sitting basically opposite me so I eventually asked if he could leave the room, they looked annoyed but thankfully he did go, after she looked at him and said “it’s up to you”…
2. I went into a changing room in a shop the other day with my mum, imagine a big room with seats in the middle and curtained dividers all round the outside. My mum was only trying on cardigans so really she just needed a mirror but in the middle on a seat was a boy about 17/18 years old. His girlfriend was trying on clothes. I couldn’t believe it! It wasn’t even doors on the changing rooms, just curtains. Why he thought this was acceptable I have no idea. Again I felt vulnerable and this time I didn’t have the confidence to ask him to leave. If my mum had been actually changing I would have probably found a shop assistant but still it’s not fair that we have to ask them to leave, he should not have been there in the first place!

aibu to think women’s spaces are being invaded more and more? How can we stop this from happening?

Considering Kerry's misogynistic posts in www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4708412-to-think-the-magic-of-christmas-is-bs?reply=122652654

and thinking carrying a human is no big deal: www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4707839-for-staying-in-bed-all-day-at-9-months-pregnant?page=2&reply=122651790

I think he has outed himself as a hateful toxic male troll and has only joined today. His comments on this and those 2 threads alone show he has no understanding of pregnancy or womens issues. I will no longer engage the germ any more.

They roam amongst us.

Whilst I agree that women need a private space to breastfeed if they wish, I also agree, that these rooms are marketed as a family room. Meaning anyone can use them.

Ive only ever used one once when one of my children were small. I needed to change their nappy and there were no changing facilities in the normal bathrooms. Instead I was directed to the family room.

It had a bottle warmer, changing facilities and then comfy chairs separated by a curtain nearby.

Thats the second time today you have accused someone of poor reading skills

Funnily enough when you did that to me it turned out you were the one who was wrong

You would have thought that might make you a little bit less eager to jump to insulting posters about reading skills but apparently not

I wouldn’t dream of sitting in the middle of a changing space if it was a women’s only or predominantly women’s clothing shop. It wouldn’t matter if the store had put up a unisex sign or (as is more often the case) effectively allowed it to become unisex without being open about it.

I’m not a woman, but I’m aware of how vulnerable it can feel to be semi-nude in spaces with ill-fitting curtains, and also conscious that a proportion of other men will take the opportunity, when presented, to do things like ‘accidentally’ open curtains, record on their mobiles, or generally be leery as hell.

Because I know that women who don’t know me have no way of telling what my intentions are, I will try my best not to make them uneasy. That means I wait outside the changing area, even if DP indicates there are chairs inside.

That means I would get up and leave a ‘parents’ room as soon as I could (assuming I’ve had no choice but to be in there in the first place to change a nappy), if someone comes in to BF. It also means I cross over the road at night, so I’m not giving the impression of following a lone woman who’s ahead of me.

Doing these sorts of things is what a decent man should do automatically.

By getting all uptight about NAMALT, or claiming my Man-given ‘right’ to be anywhere I damn well please because ‘equality’ (or something equally facile which curiously only applies consistently to those of us born male), then I end up helping the creepy men out there destroy safeguards and trample the privacy of my Mum, aunties, SiLs, DDs, DSDs etc.

@LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet - unfortunately so true and I 100% agree with you. It's really doing my tits in that so many women want to throw other women under the bus so that ignorant men can over rule us. My DH can be a bit of an arse at times and is not the most emotionally intelligent - but there is no way on earth he would even think of going into an area that is clearly intended to be for women, even without a giant 'women only' sign. It's basic manners.

And the fact that you accused me of that when it turns out that the words you insisted were in the post were not actually in the post might have made you a bit more careful about throwing around accusations about reading comprehension today, but apparently not

This thread is absolutely mental. Demanding that children go hungry if their dad can't feed them in a busy public space 🤯 that a woman's right to breastfeed is a human right that trumps a child's hunger? Honest to God 😳

No man should ever be actively making a woman uncomfortable. No man should be in a women's changing room. No man should be loitering in a family room without an active purpose of either feeding or changing their child. If there are 2 heterosexual or 2 female parents formula feeding, ideally a woman should go in alone if the room is occupied by a breastfeeding mother. But to suggest a child should go hungry because they refuse to feed in a busy public space and a father cannot enter a family room is absolutely crazy.

What would some of you think about 2 female parents attending together? Would that be okay? I mean they obviously find breasts sexually attractive....?

If my DH encountered someone spouting this crap while trying to feed DD I would 100% back him if he told you to F off. Equally, if I found a lone male hanging around a family room, or the partner of a man who appeared to be doing F all, I would ask them to leave.

Believe it or not, there is a middle ground whereby common sense and decency can be applied by both sides. Although this thread does make me wonder.

Aside from the blatant MRAs here, I’m really surprised that not wanting a random man playing on his phone in a room designed for feeding is so contentious. I don’t quite get how other women can’t see it.

I’ve BF in a range of different ‘parent/feeding’ rooms. There’s the really nice individual ones in Mamas and Papas (with a separate room for changing too), to the big changing space in the shopping centre which has a section at the other side of curtained cubicles.

I’ve also fed in ones similar to the OP and I would have found getting my breast out to feed in that situation rather threatening. Those rooms are small and enclosed. If the man had been actively changing or feeding the baby I’d still feel uncomfortable but be a bit more understanding but in the actual case I’d want him to leave too. My privacy and dignity means more than his want to sit on his arse playing on his phone.

I also don’t know why it’s so contentious for women to want to place to breastfed away from men. These rooms were created with this in mind but as with everything, became inclusive. So where are women supposed to go? What’s the solution? Men can go to a quiet cafe, park or anywhere else but what does a breastfeeding woman do if she’s unwilling or unable to feed in public?

What is a woman only space ;)

Could the lad see through the curtain? It sounds like he was absorbed in his phone, not peeping like a perv!

That said, it is rude when you are taking up spaces when others need them. Regardless of sex.

I am also hearing a lot of FEELING here. Feeling needs to be owned by the feeler.

Maybe if the parent was actually parenting and not sitting there on his phone.
But another one who can not find a single male in our family who thinks it is OK to go into women only spaces even if they technically can. That's from an 18 year old male up to an 86 year old male and every age between and non binary and broad ranges. There is plenty of room for improvement of fathers involvement in child rearing without it involving sitting in rooms where women are breast feeding and plenty of ways to support your partner without being in a changing room whilst they are trying on clothes.

Single sex spaces are legal in the UK and provided for reasons of biological sex, dignity and privacy - such as a breastfeeding room in the workplace.

Breastfeeding areas are just that. They are not general access. Its not just men that shouldn't be using them, its also women who aren't breastfeeding. They aren't just used for breastfeeding, they are also used by women who are pumping.

If you want to bottle feed there's usually a bottle warmer in the changing room.
breastfeeding.support/uk-breastfeeding-laws/

You are not unreasonable about the changing room, but what you’ve described on this post is a feeding or family room, so your first one is a bit off to get annoyed about.

Do you think women should have single sex spaces at all? Why?

It’s a feeding space, if someone’s not feeding a baby (bottle or breast) they shouldn’t be in there, don’t think it’s anything to do with being a man really.
My baby has been both and I can tell you when he’s bottle feed gets so distracted it’s impossible to feed him somewhere loud and need a quiet peaceful space to get milk down him. He’s just too interested in everything.

I don’t think a young man should’ve been in a female changing room though.

I agree him playing on his phone would be annoying, but it’s not the same as invading a space for women, as it’s not just a space for women. I’d be just as annoyed by a mother sat there taking up space playing on their phone, but that’s a general courtesy issue instead of a ‘men in womens spaces’ issue surely?

One could also argue that your issues with feeding in public are just that, your issues. And shouldn’t impact on others enjoyment or access to spaces designed for them. If women want a designated womens only BF space they can campaign for those, or ask for adjustments to be made to the existing facilities, our local shopping Center has recently put in a few locked feeding rooms due to requests like this, but the main feeding and changing space is still open for all parents, as it should be imo

I'm not sure the specific situation the OP talks about is much of a gendered issue. People are saying it's right that men are allowed in parenting rooms, and people are coming back at them saying but he was just pissing around on his phone. Well yes, but is it an issue that he was a man? It was rude of him not to get up straight away and to have to be asked. If he had been a female partner of one of the women changing a baby, and she was just on her phone, she should have vacated that spot when someone came in wanting to sit there to feed their baby. If a man had come in with a baby he wanted to bottle feed there, whoever was in the seat should have moved also. If a man had been sat in the seat bottle feeding his baby then whoever came in next would have to wait their turn. Seems like more of a general etiquette question than anything to do with men in women's spaces. Unless it was designated women only or specifically called a breastfeeding room, which it doesn't sound like it was.

hit the nail on the head !

This is the result of the pressure from organisations like Stonewall determined to erase of the language of women - breastfeeding / nursing mothers, pregnant women etc are now seen as unacceptable.
Once you can't name a group, eg breastfeeding women, then their needs and rights become invisible. Any potential space for them must be renamed - made "gender neutral"
So another quiet private space that enables women to be out in society while breastfeeding is removed so that the Nigels and Simons of the world can noisily trample on a woman's reasonable wish for privacy when partly unclothed. And thus some women will stop going out into public if their needs aren't catered for - which is why spaces for breastfeeding mothers were so hard fought for 30 years ago.

It's regressive and anti women and a shame that some women join in with the men noisily trampling over the needs of women when vulnerable.