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AIBU?

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Original poster

Sorry. Another Andrew Tate thread

198 replies

JusteanBiscuits · 29/12/2022 10:08

Having been following the Greta / Tate stuff on a number of different sites (and cheering Greta on so hard!) I see time and time again men (and yes it's men) posting about how if they were allowed their masculinity, Tate wouldn't have the fans but they get told that masculinity is toxic, how it's been taken away from them, how they are an "underclass".

What exactly has been taken away from men?!

As far as I can tell, Tate followers don't like the fact that women will no longer put up with being second class. Won't put up with being harassed or sexually assaulted. Are willing to stand up for themselves and be counted.

Are this section of men really so very weak that they are so threatened by this?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
8
Squarerootofpi · 30/12/2022 09:26

I'm thoroughly enjoying all the memes coming out since his arrest. Also, the European traffic monitoring system is named GRETA - Group of Experts on Action against Trafficking in human beings. What a lovely bit of irony 😃

Sorry. Another Andrew Tate thread
Sorry. Another Andrew Tate thread
Sorry. Another Andrew Tate thread
LadyWithLapdog · 30/12/2022 09:30

@Squarerootofpi I’m not on Twitter so this is entertaining to read :)

Readabookgroucho · 30/12/2022 09:41

‘hotdiggetydog · Yesterday 21:24
Sadly his video reply absolutely knocked her pathetic retort out of the park’

the ‘retort’ that finally made the Romanian authorities admit he WAS in the country? That one?
The one where he looks like someone too depressed to get dressed properly and witters on about pizza box recycling?
oh aye, ‘ knocked…out of the park’ has deffo been the main reaction to that video…

LadyWithLapdog · 30/12/2022 09:49

Poor man, is there no woman prepared to cook for him, and encourage him to get up and dressed and face the day?

Readabookgroucho · 30/12/2022 09:51

@hotdiggetydog Any anyway, her tweet was a response to him baiting her -
So ask yourself - why would the, so he says, multi millionaire, incredible successful, Bugatti driving, babe magnet that is Andrew Tate feel the need to go onto Twitter and start randomly messaging girls half his age?

Readabookgroucho · 30/12/2022 09:51

@LadyWithLapdog perhaps the women he and his brother have trafficked can’t cook?

WaddleAway · 30/12/2022 09:52

hotdiggetydog · 29/12/2022 22:26

The thing is about facts is that they are quite hard to argue with

Show quote history

The other thing about facts is that they have to be true.

Squarerootofpi · 30/12/2022 09:57

<snort>

Sorry. Another Andrew Tate thread
ButterPaws · 30/12/2022 10:05

sashagabadon · 29/12/2022 22:04

A recent documentary I watched with my son was the Thai cave rescue. That is an absolute example of male role model positivity. The British rescuers with their obscure cave diving hobby and expertise knowledge, the Australian medic who devised the rescue plan to sedate the boys and implemented it and the young thai coach that kept 20 boys calm and alive for over a week. All fantastic and examples of positive masculinity.
that is the sort of thing I mean.

I don't want to be contrary but why is this an example of positive masculinity? Aren't these just examples of positive humanity? Could women not have achieved what the men did? Or were women not let near? I don't know anything about diving, do male divers have more stamina, skill etc?

Again, not arguing with your point just putting the questions out there.

Oysterbabe · 30/12/2022 10:46

Poor Andrew. I shall buy and light a candle for him.

Sorry. Another Andrew Tate thread
Penguinsaregreat · 30/12/2022 10:46

Well I’d never seen Andrew Tate before now and I had this picture of a good looking youngish bloke. Wow how wrong could I be. I never thought he would be some old, haggard, ugly bloke.
Ugly on the outside, ugly on the inside.
I hope he is imprisoned for a very long time for what he has done.

FloydPepper · 30/12/2022 11:31

RoarsomeTeramorphous · 30/12/2022 09:19

This is the big one that people overlook - some men think that they get told to be "nice, kind, caring" and that "looks don't matter". Yet they see women getting with "bad" guys who treat them bad and they think "this is all bullshit, it's stacked against me".

This is actually a worryingly toxic comment that seems to have gone unnoticed in the thread - this shows that men have a sense of entitlement to women that they believe they deserve, and that women don’t deserve choice in the matter. It is interesting that the comment was proffered by a man.

There is a concerning amount of ‘nice guys’ who fake niceness and then become scarily aggressive when they don’t get what they want. Promoting entitlement for men is not a ‘big thing that people overlook’ it is part of the problem. Neither men or women ‘deserve’ a life partner and if a particular group is constantly alone, constantly rejected, then why is that seen as the fault of women, instead of them looking internally?

I think you misunderstand. That poster wasn’t advocating those viewed, he was saying it’s one of the the drivers for followers of people like Tate.

he, and I agree, is saying that we need to understand what causes men like that to think like that so we can address and prevent it. Tate isn’t the issue (odious as he is), if it wasn’t him it’s he someone else.

we need to work out why boys and men feel they are not wanted, not allowed to be who they are, disenfranchised. Dismissing this is dangerous

Phewthatwasclose · 30/12/2022 11:36

Burgoo · 29/12/2022 14:38

@JusteanBiscuits "What exactly has been taken away from men?!"

This is going to take some explaining! Firstly (full disclosure) I am a bisexual man, I was gay for years then met a woman. I am in a good profession, earning decent money and have a degree of middle-classness. I am as far from Tate as one can imagine, in fact I despise people like him because he sows division and hate within a society that is already rather unpleasant.

That said, I have spoken to MANY men over the years who believe much of what Tate says, in my professional life. A few themes always came up:

  1. Some men feel they have no "role" any longer. Whereas women can now do any range of things (and rightly so), some men feel pushed out. They don't have the status and their "breadwinning" days are long gone. Women can do everything men can do, men are often degraded for being stay at home parents etc.

  2. White men (straight particularly) are seen as "the most privileged" and it simply isn't reflected in their everyday experience. They are stuck on council estates, in dead end jobs, paying into a system and getting nothing out, no housing, no benefits, no compassion or empathy for how hard things are.

  3. They see other groups (not straight white and male) having a good moan about how awful things are for them and when they try to raise a genuine grievance it is often shouted down. They are told they are "privileged" and to "stop complaining, the patriarchy benefits you" and they think "that's bullshit, look at how shit my life is!"

  4. Male suicide rates, alcoholic/drug addiction, sexual harassment/assault, perceived unfairness in court proceedings, work related accidents/deaths, perceived unfair housing practices of LAs etc all get widely ignored and that fuels their HUGE amounts of anger.

  5. This is the big one that people overlook - some men think that they get told to be "nice, kind, caring" and that "looks don't matter". Yet they see women getting with "bad" guys who treat them bad and they think "this is all bullshit, it's stacked against me".

  6. Some men perceive that to be "masculine" is to be seen as "bad". Everything about them is "toxic" and needs to be purged from society. They are endlessly told that they need to show emotions, yet not the ones that get them in trouble. They take this message as being told if they are masculine they are fundamentally "wrong" and "evil" and "toxic".

That is the feeling I've gotten talking to HUNDREDS of men who have been in either prison services or radicalised - in a nutshell. They genuinely believe that the world has swung the opposite direction and that it is now stacked against them. They believe that whilst everyone else has gotten more rights they have seen a decrease in their overall worth and they aren't happy (who would be!)

The problem is that there is a kernel of truth in EVERY perspective and until we as a society hear ALL sides, we will never have unity. We (and I count myself on the side of doing the right thing) need to find a way where EVERYONE feels like they are winning. This means... listening to ALL sides and not dismissing them. Acknowledging that there is a tendency for neuroticism in all "groups" where people "believe" their narratives. We need to stop screaming and telling people they are toxic, bad, a scourge on the rest of society. This does NOT win people over. It is the exact same tactics these young men engage in to get women (and minority groups) to do what they want and it is NOT ok.

People like Tate (predators of vulnerable, often deeply unhappy young men) claim that to get ahead you have to be brutal, take no prisoners, treat women badly, show no mercy or respect, and be the "Top G" (apparently that stands for gangster rolls eyes)

I will paraphrase what someone once told me and it stuck with me because despite how completely deluded it was, this person actually believed this, 100%:

"there is currency in being oppressed. You can shut down conversation when you are oppressed. You say something and you are called an ist of some type. There is huge power in that. Everyone must have something to hang their victimhood on, even if its bullshit. Why can't people like me have a hanger? Society has treated me like shit, and then told me I should be grateful. F* them"

Obviously paraphrasing but that gives the main points of the conversation we had.

Really thoughtful post, thank you.

yubgummy · 30/12/2022 11:37

ButterPaws · 30/12/2022 10:05

I don't want to be contrary but why is this an example of positive masculinity? Aren't these just examples of positive humanity? Could women not have achieved what the men did? Or were women not let near? I don't know anything about diving, do male divers have more stamina, skill etc?

Again, not arguing with your point just putting the questions out there.

Show quote history

Mmm, but women didn't, though, did they?

Testosterone is a hell of a drug. I find it interesting that this site acknowledges the clear sex differences between men and women when it comes to trans issues but not when it comes to everyone else...

Readabookgroucho · 30/12/2022 11:53

He’s clearly on steroids, which might explain part of his erratic behaviour and raging rants he likes to go on - like how capers are ‘losers’ putting poison into their bodies while Tate himself smokes the kind of cigars only a man with a inferiority complex about his genitalia would smoke.
it doesn’t explain the trafficking, conning and rape though - that’s just him being the worst of humanity.

Readabookgroucho · 30/12/2022 11:53

vapers! Not bloody capers…

LexMitior · 30/12/2022 12:45

He appears to be a pimp and a rapist to judge from his arrest and the information coming out about the charges.

Since he believes women are property this is not surprising. I can see his appeal to a feeble immature guy whose only possible perk in life would be believing they are owed by women. His supporters are just misogynists. Nothing more.

PriamFarrl · 30/12/2022 13:04

MadelineUsher · 30/12/2022 08:44

I do agree that the problem isn’t him per se

How is the problem not him, per se?! He is the one mass-marketing and monetising these views, he is the one with the enormous following, he is the one promoting the views that women belong to men and that victims of rape are partially responsible, he is the one who bragged about moving to Romania, saying 40% of the reason was it was easier to evade rape charges there, and now he is the one arrested over exploitation, sex trafficking, and rape charges. (Along with his brother and others.)

If it wasn’t him it would be someone else. We need to educate boys so they understand how to behave.

Cuppasoupmonster · 30/12/2022 13:19

yubgummy · 30/12/2022 11:37

Mmm, but women didn't, though, did they?

Testosterone is a hell of a drug. I find it interesting that this site acknowledges the clear sex differences between men and women when it comes to trans issues but not when it comes to everyone else...

Show quote history

I agree. There are clear tendencies in behaviour in both sexes. That’s not to say displaying a behaviour typical of the opposite sex makes you the opposite sex, but we can’t pretend the only differences are purely the physical. Hormones play a huge part in all this - look at the ‘my personality has changed since the menopause’ threads, nobody is on there saying ‘don’t blame the hormones, they don’t make you feel a certain way, it’s all societal conditioning’.

Cuppasoupmonster · 30/12/2022 13:20

PriamFarrl · 30/12/2022 13:04

If it wasn’t him it would be someone else. We need to educate boys so they understand how to behave.

Show quote history

How? I have the same feelings about Tate as the rest of you but I find ‘feminism/misogyny’ threads to be frustrating - lots of ‘X and Y should happen’ but no ideas about how or whether it would actually work.

milkyaqua · 30/12/2022 13:26

If it wasn’t him it would be someone else.

But it is him.

All these hypotheticals. It is him now. As Trump was Trump - although hypothetically someone almost as awful could have appeared at some point of time in his place.

Furries · 30/12/2022 13:34

@Readabookgroucho - complete detail, but am still laughing at capers! TBF, they are vile 😂

Furries · 30/12/2022 13:35

*derail, not detail 🤦🏻‍♀️

glittertinsel · 30/12/2022 13:42

Absolutely fantastic that this dweeb has been brought down by Greta - and ordering a pizza! Internet gold!

The #SDE will stick forever now. He is the ultimate epitome of SDE.

Hope he rots in a Romanian jail forever.

MissyB1 · 30/12/2022 13:46

And my 14 year old’s response to the arrest? “Oh no mum it will all be a mistake, he will be innocent, he’s been arrested before and there was no evidence against him. He’s innocent.”

Sigh……