To have risked severely offending this friend by being truthful here?

[ColinRobinsonsfamiliar]

long awaited night out with great close group of friends. About 8 of us.
Planned a couple of months ago and finally got a date good for us all.8pm table booked.
The group is older, all with either grown up kids or older kids of our own.
One though has a toddler. She doesn’t get out at all really except with us.
She was telling me the other day that her (god damned useless/areshole) “D” H suggested she bring the toddler along to the meal as it’s been a while since some of us haven’t seen said toddler for a few months and must be missing him terribly.
It’s a bit of an issue normal as this friend tends to dominate things by insisting on passing round endless pictures of toddler and insisting we each look at the various films & pictures of the child.
I was really taken aback by this suggestion and said that I really really think it’s an adults only evening and would toddler not be in bed by 8pm? To which She said she would keep toddler awake so we could all see him for the meal.
To which I said that with all due respect, some of the group would not come if she brought the child along as it would change the dynamic of the evening that we had all been looking forward to for so long.
She just couldn’t understand where I was coming from at all, I couldn’t understand her pov at all either.
Believe me, 8 out of 8 of the others would not come if she brought the child cute as he is. They would cancel.
How would you have worded this??

He sounds very controlling. He's either deliberately sabotaging her time with her friends (textbook) or he is the most stupid man on the planet, in addition to being lazy and useless. And it sounds as though she has now got quite a warped view of what's normal and what's not, so appears from the outside to be corroborating in it all.

If he has to bring the toddler to drop her off, is he also going to bring this poor child out in the middle of the night to collect her? And they both think that's OK?

I think you need to take a harder stance with this woman. You don't have to wait around for her when you pick her up or stay for two hours when you drop her off. Harsh as it sounds, you chose to do those things. You just make it crystal clear that you will be collecting at X time and won't wait around because you want to make the most of your night out. Unfortunately if she's not ready you will press on without her. And then do it! Sadly it's very possible that her husband is also sabotaging her attempts to get ready by not taking the baby so she can get on with stuff (grew up with a dad who did shit like this to my mum) but that's not your problem and you can only help her if she helps herself. She needs to be more aware that this isn't normal and not pandering to it is one way you can help her realise that. Likewise when you drop her off you just say "I've got to rush off I'm afraid, very tired and an early start in the morning" and don't go into the house with her. Sometimes you have to be blunt to the point of rudeness with people like this.

Your wording was nice op. I think I'd have gone down the

"Hahaha he is trying it on isn't he? Wanting a night to himself. You told him no off course?

Based on your updates, i simply wouldn't include her. She and her husband sound like really low-down, self-absorbed, unappealing people.

Life is too short to waste it that way.

Yes she is now very clear that the toddler is not invited. I did have to say that the others would cancel as it’s an adult only night out.
She seemed shocked and taken aback.
I followed up with maybe meeting at the local lovely park in spring with everyone for a walk around the lake and a coffee, that way toddler can come too.
She seemed happy with this.

@ColinRobinsonsfamiliar I hit the wrong ABU
I meant to say YaNBU!
Nope.
No place for a toddler.

I'm sorry, but I'd be saying, 'It looks like your stay has come to an end'.

I think what you said was fine, if she’s offended that’s on her really.

"I love you but do not bring your toddler. This is an adult night out. Your DH is only suggesting your bring toddler along as he can't be arsed looking after the kid himself. You'll ruin the night if you being your kid as people will drop out, I am one of them"

No one is really interested in other peoples kids-
Unless one is a close relation.
And definitely not on an adult evening out.

How is it possible that a grown adult cannot understand why other adults don't want to spend an evening with her toddler?

My friend pandered to such a man. Even when they split up. It affected me at times. It ended up I walked away from an 8 year friendship because I was so fed up.

You sound like a very kind and thoughtful friend, OP. Your friend and her DH sound insufferable and utterly clueless.

You do realise that unless one of the group will be able to give her a lift home afterwards, you’re going to have her DH coming into the restaurant again at the end of the night for you to all say good night to toddler as I assume he’ll have to come and pick her up.

You need a plan to stop that!

Head him off at the door to stop him coming to the table?

Well done OP. I'm a massive wimp with things like that and almost always regret it. If you hadn't stood up to her not only would the evening be ruined it's the kind of thing that can end up contributing to friendships fading away. People can't be arsed arranging meet ups for them just to be turned into a late night babysitting session. Then they don't happen any more. If she decides not to come than at least the rest of you get to have a nice night. Either she'll use it as a wake up call that her child isn't that exciting to anyone else or she'll be affronted and back off from the friendship group in which case you won't have necessarily lost much.

Your friend is in an abusive and dysfunctional relationship.

He’s neglectful, domineering, lazy and controlling.

She is pushing the relationship dysfunction on to you - being late, downloading for 2hrs, expecting the toddler to come. You are inadvertently enabling this dysfunction with too much accommodation.

Call it our gently. Signpost her to professional help. Give her boundaries - if she isn’t ready within 10 mins of agreed time you move on. When you drop off say you have to leave immediately or give her 10 mins etc.

If you get too enmeshed with these types you end up having your normal healthy boundaries eroded and become resentful, compromised and start to doubt yourself.

Don’t let her manipulate you with faux surprise or tears.

She can’t manage her dreadful partner herself so is expecting you all the pick up the slack.

Pushing back clearly and calmly will help her out in the long run.

Don't get out of your car.

Even your title “to have risked seriously offending friend” is disproportionate and indicates that you are unwittingly entangled in the knock on from her toxic relationship. Can you see how your own anxieties have been inappropriately heightened here?

Its a unanimous YANBU - and you knew that in your gut but are afraid of her / her partner somehow?

It certainly sounds like an abusive relationship to me. Even putting aside his selfishness and laziness, the fact he doesn’t want to look after his own child for one evening could be due to the aforementioned laziness but also likely to be an attempt to undermine her adult friendships and cut her off from her social life IMO.

I couldn’t be bothered with any of this! She sounds exhausting.

You were absolutely right to tell her. You could follow it up with a message to say a night out is a rare chance to catch up with friends without any interruptions and any children there means everyone cant relax the same way.

Its her issue she needs to sort with the Husband so dont pander to it and she’ll soon get fed up of never having a girls night out.

That's a frustrating position to be put in, OP, but you've handled it beautifully. From what you've said about your friend's living situation and her partner's behaviours it sounds like she is trapped in a coercive and abusive relationship and trying her best to hang on to the friendships she still has, in the face of his sabotage.

You obviously weren't wrong to stay firm about the night out, it would be totally inappropriate to have a child there. However, my stomach is squirming from how much these antics sound like my controlling ex's manipulations (right down to the gatecrashing restaurant hellos and essential TV watching when I had a visitor) and perhaps this time your friend is trying to stand her ground.

Tiny rebellions like insisting I was going through with plans no matter what he did to wreck them were the only way I had to remain connected to who I used to be. She might not be ready to go yet but she will be one day. Please follow up on that walk and find ways to stay in touch, even if only by letter or email, until she can break free. In the meantime, I hope you have an awesome (twat-free) night out.

YANBU! Who on earth would think that this is acceptable?

If that's the case then she should cancel, not fair that the rest of the group should have their evening ruined by her poor choice of father for the child! The photos would be bad enough for me!

I have a friend like this. Before she had children, she always brought her husband to our nights out. Then when the children arrived, either they got a babysitter and both came, or the children came with her. Their reasons were that children won't settle with him and the rest of us wouldn't mind because we love the children 🙄

Am betting she sat there pretending to give a shit about all your kids when they were younger, so from that side YABU a bit

but there was nothing wrong with what you said, you might however need to accept this friendship isn’t likely to last at this rate