To ask your thoughts on Andrew Tate?

[bagthoughts]

I went out for dinner recently and all of my nephews aged between 13-26 had a lots of respect for him.

While I agree with a lot of what Andrew Tate says he then has to spoil things with his horrific views on certain topics and I'd go as far as to say some of his points make him dangerous to young men (it concerned me how my nephews really respect him)

What are your thoughts on Andrew Tate?? But also, why do so many respect him in this way when he is so dangerous? Or is it that most people clearly secretly feel this way too?!

Andrew Tate is a scumbag with horrible views about women.

However I know a lot of young men in his target audience due to volunteering I do. He is tapping into something for them.

I feel the problem is that the only alternative message they get is "you should be a nice guy, ask permission before kissing her, don't open doors for her because that's anti-feminist" etc. Which just fundamentally goes against their nature and something in them realises that.

There aren't a lot of male role models who are very explicitly male/masculine/powerful, who are confident enough to ask women out in a bar, but who also don't want to move to Romania to set up a harem.

The political/social attitude divide between young women and young men in this age group is one of the things that most concerns me.

SamanthaCaine
Has he seriously become popular for spouting that uninspired shite. It's quite astonishing how basic young men must be if they're reading that and lightbulbs are switching on.

When your options are
1/ Men are evil
and
2/ Men are not evil
Slightly simplified for ease of point making.

Which one would you go for?

Its not that hard to understand.

But as you and others have said its something that society needs to deal with, as its a problem that society has caused.

The point I was making is he has in some videos highlighted the equality men generally get when relationships break down especially when children are in the mix. Dad's usually get the raw deal. That is a sexual inequality that is very much linked to the trend in male suicides.

As for his views that are viewed as misogyny, I've seen plenty of anti men misandry accounts that are just as bad on tiktok.

As for his views that are viewed as misogyny...

Crikey

It's not just young men. He's becoming the poster boy for right wingers as well. He's to the right of attila the hun and is becoming a regular on Murdoch's Talk TV and has been on GB News a few times. He's a convenient tool given that the right complain that young people are all liberal lefties.

Teenage boys just enjoy his bombast on social media.

"Viewed as mysoginy" wow. Just wow.

Also bonus points for pointless blatant whataboutism.

Charming...

The problem a lot of young men see is it's the arseholes that often get the girls at that age and they listen to people like Tate and they think what he says makes sense. Girls love a bad boy.

Dads usually get the raw deal? We're back to Fathers 4 Justice! The courts in the UK put the children's interests first, not the parents', and rightly so. If a father is denied access to his children, it's probably for a very good reason. I wonder if all the estranged fathers telling strangers their psycho ex won't let them see their kids are bang up to date with their child maintenance payments? How many of them have contact arrangements in place but then don't bother to actually see the children regularly?

That guy is only a role model to other small guys who are insecure about their own smallness and actually scared to properly grow up. Nothing to do with age- those insecure little creatures who 'respect' such views can be well into their 50s... pitiful lot really...

The political/social attitude divide between young women and young men in this age group is one of the things that most concerns me.

This is the interesting point as well. Tate is extremely right wing (makes someone like Farage look like a socialist). He's also politically radicalising young men as well as socially.

"Viewed as misogyny"?

You don't think the quotes I shared in the post tagging you are clearly, unequivocally misogyny?

a sub set of 15 to 25 males who feel disenfranchised by society and that they are being punished for past generations sexism and misogyny

I don't understand this. Punished in what way? Are we in the territory of 'When you’re accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression'?

I'd say it's more the emasculation of men and "masculinity is toxic" narrative they've been fed growing up. As a result they don't know what a man is supposed to be, particularly if they've grown up without a strong father figure.

Equality feels like oppression is part of it though. Females are massively outperforming males educationally though, so something has gone wrong with males.

The only people I've ever heard speak favourably of him were considerably older than teens

Alternatively, it's taken a hell of a time, but I would say something is going right with girls and education. In earlier generations, often they weren't allowed to stay on at school after leaving age, or study science, and they were even less likely to go to university than boys. The pass mark for the 11+ was manipulated so that girls had to better than boys to pass, as otherwise there would have been far more girls than boys proceeding to grammar school. Girls were artificially held back. Now they aren't.

Having said that, men overtake them in career terms later on because they don't have to factor in time off for pregnancy, recovering from childbirth etc and they are far less likely even now than women to go part-time while their children are young, or to have to juggle caring responsibilities (for older relatives as well as children) with work.

If boys are being brainwashed into thinking they're being held back, ask them to explain the gap in pay between male and female employees, and how few women reach board level in major companies, and why even now fewer than 50% of MPs are female.

Equality is sold as there being a set amount of it and enhancing it for one is removing it for another.

So yes basically

That's what sadly becomes when you spend too much time on the internet instead of living in the real world. Here's one golden nugget of my own:

Live life away from a screen or live your life by the screen.

I'm just going to come up with a few more and then start counting my millions ;)

Seriously though, real life is far more nuanced and never quite like the myriad 'ishoos' on the internet. I have literally never experienced real life discussions like they appear on the internet. Certainly men, boys that I know don't have toxic masculinity rammed down their throats. Definitely not enough to feel the need to resort to men like this fuckwit.

Exactly. Young men are really alienated by a lot of the rhetoric of the left. One of the reasons they confide in me is that I'm openly gender critical and also generally centre-right in my opinions (not nearly to the extent of Andrew Tate!) which makes me "based and red-pilled" or whatever, even though realistically I'm pretty centrist.

I never know what kind of influencers/role models to recommend. I wish there was a resurgence of old-fashioned manliness/chivalry, almost anti-feminist but in a respectful way, acknowledging the differences between the sexes, with just enough anti-woke content (a PP had it right - "do you want the ideology which tells you men are scum, or the other one?"). Almost as an innoculation against AT content.

The movement would need to be dismissive of AT in a different way. Hand-wringing about misogyny is the WRONG approach, believe me. It needs to be "lol, what a fucking loser, what woman would want to fuck an MLM scammer when she could fuck a real man with an actual career".

Your question about the wage gap in your last paragraph is pretty much explained your second.

As for why 50% of MPs are not female? IMO its because they don't want to be arseholes.

SamanthaCaine

I agree that life is far more nuanced.
But its hard when you are bombarded with men are bad and (LBH) girls going after the bad boys, whilst society still seems to revere that same poor behaviour in footballers, film stars, multimillionaires and the new breed of fuckwits that are influencers.

On a slightly different note (but the same), I have never been able to understand why Jordan Peterson is being lumped in with this group.

yubgummy

I like the sound of your movement but, the problem is that there are plenty of women that are happy to shag AT and his ilk.

On a slightly different note (but the same), I have never been able to understand why Jordan Peterson is being lumped in with this group.

Because he's a grifter as well

Could you be more specific?

Of course my third para is explained by my second para! Now we know for sure that women have excellent brains and can do just about every job to the same standard as men, with the exception of things that require more physical strength than most women possess, it would be great if we could move on to working out as a society how we rejig work life balance so that both sexes can fulfil their family responsibilities and also have a good career.

He's identified a group and exploits their insecurities to monetize his schtick