Re Ambulance/ nurse strikes

[TheWindIsChanging]

The last thread reached 1000 messages so assume that means it automatically closes any thread so thought I would continue the debate. My view is that it is unreasonable for any person in charge of a person's life to simply down tools regardless of pay issues. I wouldn't disagree pay is too low but so are many jobs yet not all jobs carry the responsibility of saving lives which will be lost during the strikes.
It's no great shock the usual suspects are screaming about the tories again waving tiny fists around red faced incandescent with rage. The reality is increasing wages across the board would lead to an inflation death spiral which happened in the 70s further decreasing quality of life for all of us, not just the NHS workers.
Inflation is the main issue that causes issues with wages, and the reason for this is principally covid lockdowns which ( cue the drumroll) were brought in to protect the useless NHS... the irony that this same "service" is now complaining about economic problems which it helped to instigate is hilarious. I can't remember a single year in the last 20 where it wasn't nearly "bursting at the seems" and given the amount of tax payers money disappearing into it like the metaphorical black hole perhaps time it was scrapped. I don't see these same issues in other countries..a healthcare worker is not a typical profession as the basic goal is to save lives not abandoning ship. As others have said, all very well to type YABU, but I suspect the wind would change quickly if it was a relative who died as a consequence of these disgusting strikes which will cost lives make no mistake about it. That said, the same people raging about the state of the economy were labelling anyone not supporting lockdowns as a " granny killer" which anyone with an IQ over 70 could see would lead to this mess.

Please give tangible suggestions on how you would solve the current nursing recruitment/retention crisis, instead of just saying they shouldn't strike, actually suggest how you will retain nurses going forward?
The government knew this was coming, They knew the nursing profession was top-heavy with older nurses, that the population was aging and getting sicker and at some point the nurses leaving would be > recruitment, and yet they still went ahead with getting rid of the bursary. Nursing unions have warned about this for at least the last 10 years.

A combination of Covid and Brexit (which lost us a lot of European nurses) and 10 years of sub-inflation pay rises has accelerated this issue. Nurses who can have left or taken early retirement if they could.
Covid was hell on earth, but even though it's not in the news, staff are still massively under pressure, to clear wait lists, to deal with the massive upswing in respiratory illnesses and paediatric illnesses, the workload didn't stop after covid admissions slowed down, it just ramped up more and more and has been exacerbated by the loss of staff.
It's obvious the government had not been listening and had not prepared and the 1% payrise offer post covid when nurses were burnt out and many were suffering PTSD was the final insult.

you have no clue how unsafe hospitals are at the minute due to understaffing. It can't go on, nurses are not prepared to come into work and do a substandard job, spending all shifts in crisis management mode, juggling plates and hoping that they don't drop one, because if they do it's their nursing license at risk, any mistakes made under pressure are blamed on the nurse, not the system they are working in.

You say the only good thing we created presumably meaning the NHS and " we" being Britain, but given the significantly worse health outcomes of virtually all health outcomes compared to our European counterparts , this is your view not necessarily fact. For every good story reported about the fabled NHS, there is a horrific one.

My friend works in a care home. She gets £11.20 an hour, and they cannot get staff. Friend does bank shifts, and reckons they'd have her working 24/7 if they could.

They've had to resort to agency staff, all (to date) from overseas. They get paid £16+ by the agency, so lord knows how much the agency charges the car provider. Within 4 weeks of the agency staff starting, the company withdrew the "perk" of free meals for staff while on duty, presumably to recoup some of the costs.

She's in a rural, low wage area and they probably wouldn't have an issue with recruitment if they were paying more, although she's in a dementia care home, so it's very challenging work.

I'm in awe of carers, I wouldn't do that job for £30 an hour.

The NHS was understaffed long before lockdown. It hasn't happened because of it and it could have been worse if we hadn't had it as many more NHS workers could have died or decided to leave before they did. NHS workers weren't fired because they didn't get vaccinated either- the policy was changed. The NHS isn't one of the most inefficient services in Europe. It is one of the most underfunded though.

My view is that it is unreasonable for any person in charge of a person's life to simply down tools regardless of pay issues.

So what should they do then?

Ambulance staff strikes: facts and figures on the ambulance workforce

www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/ambulance-staff-strikes-facts-and-figures-on-the-uk-ambulance-workforce.

You are being unreasonable and also making ridiculous arguments with no basis in economic fact. Public sector workers function in a market economy. They are not slaves tied to a job. If the pay and conditions worsen significantly they are free to leave and find another job. Forcing them to work at below-market conditions will just cause shortages. Inflation is being caused by a combination of global supply shocks and the after-effects of Brexit. Forcing nurses out of the profession isn’t going to reduce inflation. Your arguments are honestly too ridiculous for words.

Who is " we" and what blood do people have on their hands advocating sacking NHS employees for not taking a vaccine and Labour wanting longer lockdowns creating more economic crisis? No mention either of the billions Blair wasted on the NHS..strange how selective your memory is

For every good story reported about the fabled NHS, there is a horrific one.

For every horrific story reported about the NHS there are 100 good ones that don’t get reported.

It's not just the UK either. It's happening in America in New Zealand, and Australia too. there is a general lack of skilled nurses worldwide.

We are top heavy with older people, who have multiple illnesses. the population is making greater demands on health services everywhere because of this demographic.
This isn't a surprise, it's been known about for decades, but instead of increasing training places over the last 20 years to plan for this they cut them and made it financially detrimental to people to train.

My view is that a person in charge of a person's life is in a highly stressful, skilled, and very responsible job, and their pay should reflect that, and their conditions of work should support that.

I realise that these are the arguments Rishi Sunak and others in government are using, but at least they know it’s rubbish, whereas you seem to have bought it.

No mention either of the billions Blair wasted on the NHS..

It was only wasted because the Tories came along and fucked it up.

You can argue semantics over how a sentence is phrased, but if an individual is employed to save lives and doesn't bother turning up and that person dies who would have survived with medical attention - what would you call it?

Yes to this. And we need those funds even more now.

This.

@TheWindIsChanging please actually respond to the questions people are asking you.

What is it that you want then?

The nurses are asking for a 19% pay increase having already had one last year. Can you name other professions in the public sector with a similar increase in wage?

They aren't employed to save lives on strike days though as they aren't being paid when striking. It's no different to leaving the job or not doing the job in the first place.

No mention either of the billions Blair wasted on the NHS..strange how selective your memory is

How many years ago was he PM? How many years have the Tories had to put it right? yet still the NHS is in trouble. How far back are you going to take your argument?

So you admit their pay is too low but you think they should continue to work themselves to the bone because they should just “care” more. Never mind their own and their family’s wellbeing? We drove past the ambulance station in our nearest city earlier and everyone was beeping their support for the strikers. It made me so sad to see them all standing there in their uniform.

No, hence we’re all striking…

Why so much anger?

Taking away the emotion, any employee who is part of a union has the right to withdraw labour.

Without Unions we wouldn’t have the employee rights today - including the private sector. Or are you suggesting that certain professions have no rights to safe working conditions? Surely that’s slavery?

OP, it's pretty obvious from the voting that YABU, according to MN anyway.

Nothing will ever improve unless the government changes their priorities with regard to the NHS, because decades of underfunding have finally reached 'breaking point' !

The people responsible for this are NOT striking i.e the MP's !
Why ? because in the past 30 years or so their wages have increased approx £30k ! While nurses wages (in real terms i.e not keeping up with inflation etc) have DROPPED over the same time period !

So it's either strike and demand better wages, or leave the NHS !

Which would YOU choose for the future of the NHS ???

The statistics regarding the NHS inefficiency are there for anyone to see as are the relative health outcomes of various diseases compared to other European countries. As for no NHS worker losing their job because of vaccine policies, many left before the policy was changed so this is incorrect.