Re Ambulance/ nurse strikes

[TheWindIsChanging]

The last thread reached 1000 messages so assume that means it automatically closes any thread so thought I would continue the debate. My view is that it is unreasonable for any person in charge of a person's life to simply down tools regardless of pay issues. I wouldn't disagree pay is too low but so are many jobs yet not all jobs carry the responsibility of saving lives which will be lost during the strikes.
It's no great shock the usual suspects are screaming about the tories again waving tiny fists around red faced incandescent with rage. The reality is increasing wages across the board would lead to an inflation death spiral which happened in the 70s further decreasing quality of life for all of us, not just the NHS workers.
Inflation is the main issue that causes issues with wages, and the reason for this is principally covid lockdowns which ( cue the drumroll) were brought in to protect the useless NHS... the irony that this same "service" is now complaining about economic problems which it helped to instigate is hilarious. I can't remember a single year in the last 20 where it wasn't nearly "bursting at the seems" and given the amount of tax payers money disappearing into it like the metaphorical black hole perhaps time it was scrapped. I don't see these same issues in other countries..a healthcare worker is not a typical profession as the basic goal is to save lives not abandoning ship. As others have said, all very well to type YABU, but I suspect the wind would change quickly if it was a relative who died as a consequence of these disgusting strikes which will cost lives make no mistake about it. That said, the same people raging about the state of the economy were labelling anyone not supporting lockdowns as a " granny killer" which anyone with an IQ over 70 could see would lead to this mess.

The fixing of the tax allowances was already projected to raise something like £30 billion, so the pay rises wouldn't be bringing in the £55 billion, the freezing of the tax allowances would bring in extra tax revenue, and pay rises that push more people into higher tax brackets would increase the tax revenue from the allowance freeze. Unclear whether the £55 billion also includes extra taxes raised by people who are earning more being able to spend more.

I agree that I would like to see the working on this.

Please suggest what else those of us who actually work in the NHS and see how bad things actually are can do to try and draw attention to this? We are desperate.
It's not about the money. If I wanted to make loads of money I'd have gone into hedge fund managing or something 🤔.
We can't provide even a good enough service at the moment.
I'm going in tonight to work in A&E and I know I probably won't even get my (half hour in a 12.5 hour shift) break.
There will be patients lined up on the corridor waiting for beds and they probably will still be waiting when I finish tomorrow morning. I wonder if people who are against the strikes would be happy if their elderly Relative was in that position? I know i wouldn't be.
This is the new normal. It's s hard to overstate how bad it is. I wish people could actually see what it's like. We're desperate and we don't mnow what else to do.
IT'S NOT ABOUT THE MONEY

Perhaps you're right, but the NHS is there to protect the public, not the other way around

@TheWindIsChanging - no it isn’t, because the Government has run it down to the point it does not protect the public.

But you’re talking as if we’re paying the same or more than most other systems in the west when we’re really not.

If you look at admin spending a private system like the USA has substantially more costs on admin than we do.

The tories underspend on healthcare so people will start saying it’s the system that’s broken which is what they want.

If you don't offer adequate pay and conditions, you won't find anyone to do the job.

It's silly to whinge about how unsafe it is for nurses and paramedics to partially strike on a particular day, but not give a fuck that we're rapidly running out of anyone willing to do the jobs full stop.

Are you going to propose banning healthcare workers from handing in their notice? Or start conscription maybe into the NHS?

The Government is broken. It is not protecting the public.

If this torrent of abuse and nonsense is representative of an NHS worker, no wonder it's going down the pan. As for " giving warning you are striking".. well that's fine, the elderly can just delay any impending heart attacks till you decide to return to duty

Make it a man's job.

Who says it isn't. Lots of male nurses around it's just that a lot of people see it as a woman's job and men that do it are 'wierd/gay'. Its sad but I think teaching has similar problems, when I was little over 50% of our primary teachers were men, when the girls were little they were mainly women.

re the too many managers narrative A doctors view

OP, I don't really understand why you think the NHS is to blame for what you yourself say is WORLDWIDE inflation. Lockdowns were brought in (very badly in the UK) to save people, not the NHS.

Of course, you think that the NHS should be destroyed (which would cause many deaths), but also that it's unacceptable for people to strike for more money (which may cause some deaths) in order to make the NHS a viable employer. So logic is clearly not your strong suit...

How many care assistants go on strike ? Answer is none because we know if we did our residents would suffer , we are underpayed, overworked , short staffed , burnt out , massively under appreciated and looked down upon but guess what we keep going because we if we don't people genuinely suffer! But yes let's clap for the nurses ! Lol

I work in a team that investigates adult protection issues, including involving the ambulance service.

OP you are deluded if you think people weren't already dying as a result of not getting an ambulance in time. It has been happening all year.

At least this way the public gets to hear about it.

That'll be a no, then.

The money is the main problem though. There isn’t any more offered and so the strikes happen.

This is the point I want to make. Danger to patient safety and life was already going downhill before the strikes. It is strange the OP wasn't bothered about that.

Isn't excess mortality still high? Could be due to poor health services or just the larger boomer generation dying off.

I totally get this. I'm a District nurse. I recently had a bad shift. Not going in to too much detail but multiple deaths. Sort out one person/ family, straight on to the next. No time to gather your thoughts or feelings. I know its "what I signed up for", but some days get to you. We see such horrible things and have to go home to our dc with smiles on our faces. Its wearing.

I completely agree. If the current nurses and paramedics don’t force government to due something we won’t have any NHS left.

Nurses and paramedics can't simultaneously be so vital that striking is basically murder, but also so disposable that it doesn't matter that we can't recruit or retain people and services are dangerously understaffed.

Do we need nurses or not? If we need them we need to pay a decent wage and give them safe working conditions.

*It’s because we have compassion for the sick and dying that we want to protect our workforce as much as we can to ensure there will be staff to actually look after them in the future.

Honestly, just fuck off*

Well said. I find it truly baffling that anyone can say that the striking staff don't have compassion. They clearly don't understand the problems the NHS are having, and the lack of response from the Government, over years.

I truly hope that staff not only get increased wages, but also that the Government finally see that the NHS can't carry on as it is. They seem to be ignoring the bigger picture completely

Because they don’t make profit/money for anyone. They only cost money. And individual plebs aka patients are in the eyes of the government dispensable.

No healthcare worker striking is killing anyone.

Hurtful rhetoric towards people that have worked harder and harder over the last decade for a diminishing quality of life due to stagnant pay, and a pension that's been pilfered.

All of these people will die from their diseases, or accidents, but not from people striking. By the same logic - I could say you've killed dozens of people because you chose not to become a cardiologist....

They should have gone on strike 20 years ago and we would have fully staffed wards now and a half decent NHS

There was no need for strikes 20 years ago. At that point we had a government that was making a huge investment in the NHS and it was working pretty well. Then we decided for some unknown reason that voting Tory was a good idea in 2010 and here we are.

Maybe you should. Because the staffing issues in the care sector are terrible and will only get worse until actually there’s nobody left to provide care as everyone has left. Maybe you’re actually doing your patients a disservice in the long term by not striking?

Care assistants don’t go on strike because most are not part of a union, so it is highly unlikely they would ever be able to organise a legal strike, and highly unlikely they could ever afford to go on one. They would just be breaching the terms and conditions of their employment contracts with no protection whatsoever whatsoever. Obviously, Government policy is to put everyone into the noble position of being a care worker, who couldn’t strike even if they wanted to, and look where that has got us - so few careworkers that they don’t even have to go on strike to contribute to the chaos in the NHS as a result of bedblocking by vulnerable people who have nowhere in the community to be discharged to. You know, what we actually need is a massive workforce of unpaid people. That would solve everything!…