Re Ambulance/ nurse strikes

[TheWindIsChanging]

The last thread reached 1000 messages so assume that means it automatically closes any thread so thought I would continue the debate. My view is that it is unreasonable for any person in charge of a person's life to simply down tools regardless of pay issues. I wouldn't disagree pay is too low but so are many jobs yet not all jobs carry the responsibility of saving lives which will be lost during the strikes.
It's no great shock the usual suspects are screaming about the tories again waving tiny fists around red faced incandescent with rage. The reality is increasing wages across the board would lead to an inflation death spiral which happened in the 70s further decreasing quality of life for all of us, not just the NHS workers.
Inflation is the main issue that causes issues with wages, and the reason for this is principally covid lockdowns which ( cue the drumroll) were brought in to protect the useless NHS... the irony that this same "service" is now complaining about economic problems which it helped to instigate is hilarious. I can't remember a single year in the last 20 where it wasn't nearly "bursting at the seems" and given the amount of tax payers money disappearing into it like the metaphorical black hole perhaps time it was scrapped. I don't see these same issues in other countries..a healthcare worker is not a typical profession as the basic goal is to save lives not abandoning ship. As others have said, all very well to type YABU, but I suspect the wind would change quickly if it was a relative who died as a consequence of these disgusting strikes which will cost lives make no mistake about it. That said, the same people raging about the state of the economy were labelling anyone not supporting lockdowns as a " granny killer" which anyone with an IQ over 70 could see would lead to this mess.

I mean, I’d treat you with respect but you don’t command any. 🙂

Perhaps if you engaged your brain just a liiittle more, it might click that giving ample warning that we are striking meant that the government had time to consider and respond to our concerns before we had to get this far. Do let me know if I need to use smaller words to help you understand.

People are already suffering from being cared for by poorly paid and poorly trained carers, with chronic understaffing and high staff turn over. Maybe if carers organised for better pay and conditions, people would get better care.
Saying 'oh yeah it's shit at the moment but I'm not going to do anything about it' doesn't make you better than they people who are trying to improve services.

No one ignored me, the message was near the end of the thread which was closed and here you are which blows the theory out of the water. Waves and says hello*

It was said we needed to "Protect the NHS" due to a potentially overstretched service and now apparently we are understaffed... after NHS workers were fired for not having the vaccine which was a policy supported by many on here. The NHS hasn't been saved has it so what a waste of time that was. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the NHS is one of the most inefficient health services in Europe and not the holy grail we need to protect throwing all other professions under a bus

I mean obviously a safe minimum staffing in care homes would need to be provided, I don’t mean let people starve. The same way nobody is starving in a ward when nurses strike. Nurses are still working in inpatient wards, still keeping a&e open.

but I guess that’s the issue with care workers, there’s not really the “extra” non essential service which you can refuse to provide like outpatient clinics, etc. i feel for you I really do.

I am totally with you on this @Puzzledandpissedoff but frustrated that when I reach the stage where my life no longer has any meaning there are no options available to me.

As I understand it the latest Assisted Dying Bill passed both readings, but has failed at Committee Stage in 2021. It is in any case open to challenge on numerous counts in terms of it’s breadth and the number of people who would be able to use it.

I have a number of health conditions that make me question how long I want to remain alive and I am terrified of being an old lady ‘bed blocking’ and potentially experiencing elder care with no there to advocate for me.

I definitely don’t want to experience 20 plus years of dementia like my own Grandmother with us sitting watching as she was repeatedly given antibiotics and twice resuscitated, all because she had no Enduring Power of Attorney in place as she started her decline.

I want to be allowed to make those decisions for myself, either through my own mental capacity or through an Advanced Directive.

When trying to find solutions to an increasingly ageing population this issue cannot be continuously ignored. It has to be openly discussed and debated with realistic options for those who no longer want their lives preserved indefinitely.

That makes no sense at all and you're continuing to grasp at straws.

So the way views are presented by someone who works for an organisation is the reason an underfunded and poorly run organisation is "going down the pan"? Riiiiiight.

Cost of living due to the expenses from covid measures or due to the high price in gas and other fossil fuels due to the war? Because for what I know, most of it comes from the high fuel prices.
Also, it is not 100% the fault of the tory party in power. But..... they are not handling the cards they are dealt. They are just sitting there taking their wages.
The NHS issue is not new, neither due to covid pressures.
True that they are helping citizens to pay the energy bill and the earlier payment we received to cope with inflation.
But they seem to have stopped at that.
Truss makes money disappear.
Sunak is not coming up with a plan to control the increase in prices. Because surely that is what they should be doing. The raw materials are going up (fuel), so to control inflation they have to negotiate lower margins in profit for businesses, so the price of the goods is still accessible to the population.
Yeah, true we have to accept that we are in an economic downward and adjust. But the big markets need to move with the times too. It is not good to gather all the wealth in the hands of fewer and fewer each day.
The current government is not (and has not) been making any effort in a harsh time.
No amount of striking will sort the issues.
Just deep the rifts in society deeper and deeper.
If there were such a thing as minimum service laws in UK, it will be a much better forum. You vote for strike, let's say 75% says yes. They have to sit to negotiate the cover of the minimum services let's say 80% of staff must be present in each shift. Then you do the job on the day, you still count as a striker, because you voted so, but you are providing the service. Also, note they have to sit on the table to negotiate ahead of the strike day, so that is a chance to sort the issue right there.

Yep, OP thinks I’m singlehandedly to blame for the impending demise of the NHS because I got a bit sweary on a topic I’m passionate about.

😉

Lockdowns are the principle cause for worldwide inflation ( in addition to issues like Ukraine etc) and the reason for lockdowns in this country given by both those on the left and right was to " Protect the NHS" as it was on the verge of being "overwhelmed" ( which I've heard for the last 20 winters).

Indeed, well said

You're massively mixing two points together. One which you're most likely correct about re the NHS and how it's run and it's (bleak) future, and the strikes which are more than justified as they're about individuals being treated like shit.

If you start the TWICHS tomorrow you're still going to need to a) employ the majority of the current NHS staff and b) make it an attractive profession for people to enter.

Well, all the healthcare assistants who are members of the RCN and work for the NHS have been asked to strike. Plenty striked in 2014 during the Unison strike too.

Any other care assistants are welcome to join unions and I will have solidarity for them in their fight for better pay and conditions.

If the care assistants went on strike, I'd be perfectly happy to cancel admin time or even clinics / theatre lists to help out...

But continuing to accept the poor working conditions is not some sort of virtue. I would say it is closer to cowardice - knowing things should be different but not being willing to fight.

"due to a potentially overstretched service and now apparently we are understaffed..."

42,000 vacant nursing positions in September 2018 so they were undoubtedly understaffed when covid hit.

Workforce planning has been woeful.

In the pandemic there have been widespread reports of staff burnout so it is very disappointing that I am having to ask once again for urgent figures from the NHS that will detail the modelling for the numbers of professional staff that will be required for a 10 year long term plan that we are now two years into delivering. Given it takes seven years to train a doctor we will soon be beyond the point when any changes in training places will have any impact during the lifetime of the plan.

Jeremy Hunt
November 2020

committees.parliament.uk/publications/3746/documents/37686/default/

The waste, bureaucracy and spending on unnecessary things in the NHS is absolutely ridiculous and I’m saying this as someone who has sat on enough NHS Trust meetings to know.
None of the waste etc is down to the nurses

I think the reason care assistants don't go on strike is because most of them are in the private sector and not unionised.

Agreed, far too many middle managers. I tend to think of a business hierarchy as a (rough) triangle shape. I've dipped in and out of dealing with the NHS, it seems almost pentagon like in shape at times. Not to mention too many good nurses are "promoted" to roles they aren't suited to which impacts efficiency and quality of care.

Exactly. I really wish they would become unionised and force their employers to do something about their shitty working conditions.

For those saying privatisation is the answer to the NHS woes, how does this solve a shortage of 40k registered nurses? (And a rapidly increasing number at that)

OP, we might have been told, among other things, that lockdowns were to protect the NHS, but that really isn't the reality. There were lockdowns all over the world, so even you must understand that that was a leveraging of feelings British people have for what's basically the only good thing we've ever created.

" No healthcare worker striking is killing anyone" .. what utter naive rubbish . If that's the case as you claim, then being at work must save no lives so what function do they serve? As just 1 eg, ambulances will be massively delayed even more than normal, so the notion that someone who could have been saved with prompt medical attention isn't going to die with strikes is for the birds.

Ah yes the compassionate conservatism at work here. Grim. The Tory plan was ever yto run services into the ground, then chop up the nhs and sell it to their mates.

People over profit. We support those who have saved our lives, over those that would sell their own Grannie to make a quick buck. I have a feeling OP is in the latter camp.

if The government could actually manage the nhs and provide the supply to meet demand then there would be no problems. Staff are at breaking point and the government have blood on their hands.

I've just been hit with a bit of a brainwave. I'm not saying its fair or right or something to revert to, but how much of the problem in social care used to be taken care of by the lower pension age for women? Presumably women aged 60-65 were the main demographic that would be taking care of elderly parents in their own homes. Then this was changed, but there want any uplift in social care to compensate, and now here we are.

Not saving people is not the same as killing people. Otherwise we'd be forced to turn in our spare pieces of liver and kidneys more often 🙄