Re Ambulance/ nurse strikes

[TheWindIsChanging]

The last thread reached 1000 messages so assume that means it automatically closes any thread so thought I would continue the debate. My view is that it is unreasonable for any person in charge of a person's life to simply down tools regardless of pay issues. I wouldn't disagree pay is too low but so are many jobs yet not all jobs carry the responsibility of saving lives which will be lost during the strikes.
It's no great shock the usual suspects are screaming about the tories again waving tiny fists around red faced incandescent with rage. The reality is increasing wages across the board would lead to an inflation death spiral which happened in the 70s further decreasing quality of life for all of us, not just the NHS workers.
Inflation is the main issue that causes issues with wages, and the reason for this is principally covid lockdowns which ( cue the drumroll) were brought in to protect the useless NHS... the irony that this same "service" is now complaining about economic problems which it helped to instigate is hilarious. I can't remember a single year in the last 20 where it wasn't nearly "bursting at the seems" and given the amount of tax payers money disappearing into it like the metaphorical black hole perhaps time it was scrapped. I don't see these same issues in other countries..a healthcare worker is not a typical profession as the basic goal is to save lives not abandoning ship. As others have said, all very well to type YABU, but I suspect the wind would change quickly if it was a relative who died as a consequence of these disgusting strikes which will cost lives make no mistake about it. That said, the same people raging about the state of the economy were labelling anyone not supporting lockdowns as a " granny killer" which anyone with an IQ over 70 could see would lead to this mess.

Any chance OP can just shut up, have a baileys and go and enjoy Christmas 😏

For any strikers following this I support you 100%

@TheWindIsChanging your ignorance is astounding.

Striking health care workers I 100% support you.

OP, you keep dodging the question asked many times on this and the previous thread: what are nurses and paramedics supposed to do to make themselves heard if they are not allowed to strike? We need an answer.

You also seem to be wilfully ignoring the fact that the agreed settlement just about kept pace with inflation - and then inflation spiralled so it became a pay cut. After a decade of 'rises' which were also pay cuts. I realise you are a big Tory fan, but how much more do you expect people to take?

The statistics regarding the NHS inefficiency are there for anyone to see as are the relative health outcomes of various diseases compared to other European countries.

That might, just might be because we spend much less on health than other European countries.

It's incompetence from both Labour and tories over decades, but let's not pretend Labour have miracle answers with the usual tory bashing

The NHS was in good shape when the Tories inherited it. I know, I was working in it.

Health outcomes alone don't demonstrate "inefficiency". A healthcare service could be very efficient but if funding is low they won't get the same outcomes as an efficient but more well funded service.

Well it’s fucked. Everyone blaming the government - which they are to blame for a lot sure. But these trusts are getting off Scott free.

Our trust (Coventry) cut all our ambulances in rugby. We have been campaigning and campaigning, MP been to parliament. You name it! Apparently gov can’t do anything because it’s the trust.

Trust say it’s making response times better. Sure it is when you nick provision for 100,000 to shore up the half a million closer by. Improving the response on average by a matter of seconds - the sacrifice of which is leaving 100,000 people with no Category 1 cover as it takes atleast 20 mins on blue light in the dead of night to reach us.

People have died here.

And I only found that out because my 2 week old son blocked his airways. One which Rishi himself actually wished well a couple of days before his birth (I asked a question about young families on the MN Q&A).

I don’t know why but I didn’t call an ambulance. Thank god. I sped through town to adult urgent care and they moved at light of sped to save him with no paed equipment.

Think I might write to rishi actually to tell him this story. Have ummed and ahhed about it for a while.

I can try to explain it but until you have a 2 week old who’s life is draining away in your arms you really have no idea. I would be against strikes probably, not that they shouldn’t be paid more but because the damage they can cause. But we don’t have ambulances anyway so no skin off our noses. We are fucked already.

There is a serious lack of skilled nurses globally, so either you pay more or lose them to all the other countries who do pay more.

Once we were a country who poached nurses from elsewhere and now we are rapidly becoming a source country. Very few newly qualified nurses will be working in the NHS 5 years post qualification. You can abolish the NHS but the cost of healthcare to the tax payer will spiral. Almost every developed country spends more per head on healthcare than the UK.

The problems facing the NHS and it’s staff are complex. Brexit was a major nail in the coffin of decent care, stole staff and even more importantly decimated the in home and residential care sector. The rising elderly population is a serious issue across the globe and has not been well planned for or considered. COVID was a serious burden and still is.

The strikes reflect the level of discontent there is, not just about pay but about the ongoing issues

and people won’t die because of the strikes, people are dying everyday because of the chronic understaffing.

No, unfortunatelly, the labour party has failed to present a good opposition these past years and so it has not made it to power despite all the pass the hot potatoe manouvers between the tories.
But even the most fervent tory follower must see that enough is enough. We need some strong responsible person to take the lead here.

Brexit is causing inflation which is increasing in most countries on the planet is it?..embarrassing. No one said " forcing nurses out of jobs is going to reduce inflation", I said increasing wages at 19% which is proposed is going to fuel inflation which you would know if you had a basic education.

But that's happening already before the strikes, people are already dying because they can't access the care they need in a timely manner, it's been happening for years s. Why don't you care about that? For years health unions have been trying to raise the alarm and no one listened.

The RCN has been raising the alarm since 2015 if not earlier. Surveys of nurses shows the following:

Earlier this year, we asked about your experiences at work. We wanted to understand what staffing levels were like and what impact they had on patient care.
Tens of thousands of you responded. The results are shocking.

Eight in 10 (83%) said there weren’t enough nursing staff to meet all patient needs safely and effectively on their last shift.

Just a quarter (25%) of shifts had the planned number of registered nurses.

Less than one in five (18%) said they had enough time to provide the level of care they’d like.

There have been numerous studies that show that for every extra patient a nurse has above the safe level the death rate increases between 5 and 7%.

Nurses who should have 5-8 patients are coming onto shift and getting 12-15 patients.

without adequate staffing, obs are not done frequently enough, and deterioration in the patient's condition is not noticed before it becomes life-threatening. the nurses cant assess all her patients for potential problems, medicines are late or rushed, so mistakes will increase, and stuff like washes, toileting, pressure relief, assisting with feeding, etc don't get done because they physically can't be everywhere at once. Corners get cut.

Yes, I was working in the NHS then too and it was much much better than it is now. Waiting lists for operations and other treatment were also very short compared with today.

I'm not a " big tory " fan. I regard both Labour and the Conservatives as utterly useless.

As a teacher of over 20 years, I felt more respected in my profession under a Labour government. I’m sure NHS workers feel the same. If you value a profession, pay their worth and make their conditions conducive to a mentally well workforce.

Under the Conservatives I have never felt more worthless. This attitude in the press then filters down to our younger generation. Who would want to go into professions that attracts so much vitriol?

OP, healthcare and education is top heavy with older staff. Those of us who remember the “good days” of want of a better phrase. There are fewer younger people joining our professions - us oldies can’t work forever.

I agree the NHS is hopeless, which is why I said I would get rid of it and adopt a healthcare system similar to one that operates in other European countries.

I am shocked that there are areas of the UK without ambulance provision! This is terrible! I hope you are lucky OP. I wish you never find yourself in this situation never again.
Here we are! One example. The government cannot do anything? The Health Ministry cannot command a part of the NHS? Bullshit! Of course they can... if they wanted to.
And it will not cost much money at all either.

Where are the nurses coming from to staff the new system? they are leaving in droves, and not coming into the profession because pay and conditions are atrocious

Much of the NHS seems to be planned by burocrats that treat people's lives like a number in a spreadsheet.
This needs to change.

I agree the NHS is hopeless, which is why I said I would get rid of it and adopt a healthcare system similar to one that operates in other European countries.

There isn't one "european country" healthcare system. Which one would you want to copy?

A healthcare service should do what it says on the tin, if it can't deliver results which are comparable to other developed European countries it is inefficient or perhaps a more suitable phrase would be bloody awful.

TheWindIsChanging
My view is that it is unreasonable for any person in charge of a person's life to simply down tools regardless of pay issues

You seem to have no understanding of what has to happen before a strike, nor any memory of how the government has ignored the requests of the people involved to sort this out.

@TheWindIsChanging You are losing this argument hands down,a lone voice in the wilderness.

I come from a family of health care workers,I am a retired midwife,my son is a RN,qualified and left after 6months as a Staff Nurse,he will never go back to Nursing.My niece is a GP,trained and then emigrated along with her husband who is also a Doctor.This situation is being repeated over and over.Working for our NHS is soul destroying.

My friend was in hospital last week in the freezing conditions we had,no heating on at night,patients all sleeping in dressing gowns and jumpers and the Nurses working in hoodies and overcoats!! It’s bloody disgusting.

The corrupt Government are paying themselves huge salaries a d making millions each from dodgy dealings.We need rid of the lot of them.

I haven’t read your posts but I doubt your job involves any hardships like our NHS endure.

Maybe if they dropped the degree they would get more applicants, the entry requirements look pretty low so it is a lot to pay for a degree from a not very good university so why need a degree anyway

I'm genuinely confused by your posts in relation to your headline and OP? Some of your posts are in some ways supportive of the strikes in the way they criticise the running of the NHS.