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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I might well be unreasonable but here goes.....

262 replies

cocktailclub · 18/12/2022 21:20

It seems that a lot of the working age population now are snowflakes or incompetent or just don't care enough to do a good job. It's rare to manage people who actually work reliably the hours they are paid to.
I just wonder what would happen to the economy in general if
A) employees turned up and worked hard for the hours they were paid
B) employees only took sick leave when they were really unwell
C) employees did not regard the usual ups and downs of life as 'mental health' but reserved that for people with actual mental illness like clinical depression, schizophrenia etc
D) employees just genuinely cared about doing a good job and tried hard

Also would the NHS thrive if we weren't all so dependent on referrals for minor issues and just took a bit of ownership and responsibility for staying well.

If people stopped blaming social workers for child abuse and looked at the parents.

Sorry a bit of a rant but I'm disillusioned

OP posts:
HotChoxs · 18/12/2022 23:48

gwenneh · 18/12/2022 23:46

It is a management problem.

If you cannot afford to create competitive staff conditions or cannot adapt your business to changing market conditions, you cannot afford to trade. There’s no given right to be in business; if you can’t afford the overhead to providing the service then that’s not the rest of the world’s fault.

Hence why UK is currently a declining country because only global companies can afford to trade here.

HotChoxs · 18/12/2022 23:51

Fairy Godmother won't get us out of the mess British management got us into

AdventFridgeOfShame · 18/12/2022 23:51

Hmm, talking of management - has anyone been managing the country for the last decade?

HotChoxs · 18/12/2022 23:53

AdventFridgeOfShame · 18/12/2022 23:51

Hmm, talking of management - has anyone been managing the country for the last decade?

Why would they bother when the destruction of businesses here is down to management.

WreckedUmbrella · 18/12/2022 23:54

If the company can't pay employees a decent wage, then it is not viable. It is exploitation.

gwenneh · 18/12/2022 23:54

HotChoxs · 18/12/2022 23:53

Why would they bother when the destruction of businesses here is down to management.

Show quote history

If the business failed to make itself competitive in an increasingly global market then that’s unfortunate but not unfair.

HotChoxs · 18/12/2022 23:56

gwenneh · 18/12/2022 23:54

If the business failed to make itself competitive in an increasingly global market then that’s unfortunate but not unfair.

Show quote history

This would be true in a free market economy. But you've failed to notice as many others have Government interference in those markets. Only so long you can blame it on the little guy before everyone here is poor.

Nat6999 · 18/12/2022 23:57

If the NHS was properly funded & people weren't waiting years for treatment & operations then there would be a drastic fall in sick leave. Patients have to jump through so many hoops to get a referral to see a consultant it is no wonder that sick leave levels are so high, the same for mental health services. If mental health services were properly funded so patients could be seen quickly there would be less drug & alcohol abuse as most drug & alcohol abusers have mental health problems.

WreckedUmbrella · 18/12/2022 23:58

If the business can't pay its workers the going rate for a decent job - then it deserves to fail. Because it is a failing business that fails to pay its workers a fair wage.

AdventFridgeOfShame · 18/12/2022 23:59

So are all the problems in the UK caused by Kayleigh quitting as a waitress because she was well pissed off with not knowing whether she was working 2 or 5 shifts this week?
She is now happy shuffling spreadsheets for a regular income.
Meanwhile her ex boss, Sunak and Hunt are crying because she took 3 days off with Noro last year?

sinkyt · 19/12/2022 00:00

@HotChoxs I don't really understand what point you are trying to make?

WreckedUmbrella · 19/12/2022 00:04

If the business fails to pay enough, so that people don't want to work for it, then that is a failed business model.

Vanillapot · 19/12/2022 00:09

AdventFridgeOfShame · 18/12/2022 22:11

Managers need to figure out that doing well at interview and doing well at the job are two different things.

I once took a job only to discover I was person number 13 to have that job in a year. At my three month review I mentioned that there were a few issues with being able to do the job and staff retention. Well that got me blacklisted. I did two years, they have yet to get someone else who has lasted 6 months. This is all the fault of the dreadful employees.

One of my lovely colleagues sent me the EOY stats, I was the second most productive employee, management hated me.

Employees also need to understand a job can be drastically different from a job description and the probation period is to decide if the job is a good fit for you.

Wish I actually knew and practiced this during my first professional job. I was the 12th person to join a team that only required 3 FT employees. Only 1 person survived our horrendous manager that had created a terrible working environment upheld with bullying.

I was not a star employee towards the end of my employment because why should I be motivated to be. Treat people like shit you get shit.

HotChoxs · 19/12/2022 00:09

AdventFridgeOfShame · 18/12/2022 23:59

So are all the problems in the UK caused by Kayleigh quitting as a waitress because she was well pissed off with not knowing whether she was working 2 or 5 shifts this week?
She is now happy shuffling spreadsheets for a regular income.
Meanwhile her ex boss, Sunak and Hunt are crying because she took 3 days off with Noro last year?

No the problems were caused by piss poor management of the banks. Which - weren't allowed to fail causing years of austerity which lead to a poorly skilled workforce.

Apparently if businesses don't do x y and z they deserve to fail, but if the Government prevents them doing x y and z then, ha! Let them fail and we'll just use some US companies instead.

Turkeys and xmas.

AdventFridgeOfShame · 19/12/2022 00:10

WreckedUmbrella · 19/12/2022 00:04

If the business fails to pay enough, so that people don't want to work for it, then that is a failed business model.

Basically yep.
It is however, rather tough for businesses at the moment. Brexit, pandemic and war have all had an effect. Businesses are having to do big adaptations to keep clients and staff. These adaptations require good management.

The Government could attempt to appear strong and stable to help with these adjustments or they could just keep doing what they do.

WreckedUmbrella · 19/12/2022 00:15

Businesses still need to provide favourable conditions for their workers, and adequate wages. If they don't then they lose their workers to better employers,

Isn't this how capitalism is supposed to work?

Morestrangethings · 19/12/2022 00:16

RunnerBum · 18/12/2022 21:35

Ok 🙄

Let's be honest - it's a two-way street.

A) employees turned up and worked hard for the hours they were paid

I am just about the strongest believer in the world of the idea that if you do a job then you should do it well. However, there should be recognition for working hard. In my experience, in a huge number of workplaces, people are actually punished for working hard - if employee A works hard but employee B doesn't work hard, employee A will be given more workload to do. So, you're punished for doing well. People who perform well in a role are denied promotions in order to ensure they stay doing well in a department - that's unfair.

B) employees only took sick leave when they were really unwell

Many employers refuse to accommodate people's lives. People are then left needing to lie about illness to cover other aspects of their lives - like children's nativity plays or taking a dog to the vet. If employers were more open to employees having a life outside of work then it would mean employers get more notice of time off being needed and employees can get the flexibility that's required.

C) employees did not regard the usual ups and downs of life as 'mental health' but reserved that for people with actual mental illness like clinical depression, schizophrenia etc

Everyone has mental health just like everyone has physical health. Your comment is ignorant and ridiculous. If you don't maintain your mental health then you can become mentally ill. Attacking people for looking after their mental health is exceptionally ironic considering your rant goes on to complain that people need to take "a bit of ownership and responsibility for staying well".

D) employees just genuinely cared about doing a good job and tried hard

Most do. See point A.

Also would the NHS thrive if we weren't all so dependent on referrals for minor issues and just took a bit of ownership and responsibility for staying well.

Minor issues become major issues. Almost no one on the NHS is getting any help at the moment - people are dying of heart attacks and being denied emergency care. What planet are you on?

If people stopped blaming social workers for child abuse and looked at the parents.

Both can be to blame. Both are to blame. Do you think we should just eradicate social workers? Again, this point is exceptionally ironic in the light of your rant about people needing to do their jobs well - why do social workers doing their job poorly get a pass?

Surely you can see both sides of the coin on all your points? (Like any rational person).

Great answer. I’d stick something in there about liveable wages, but kudos to you.

WreckedUmbrella · 19/12/2022 00:27

I wish the bloody Labour Party would get back to basic socialism, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." And fuck the "his" - women need equity too.
Instead of Labour just farting while sitting on various fences, blubbing and farting.

HotChoxs · 19/12/2022 00:29

WreckedUmbrella · 19/12/2022 00:15

Businesses still need to provide favourable conditions for their workers, and adequate wages. If they don't then they lose their workers to better employers,

Isn't this how capitalism is supposed to work?

Yes which is why when the Government doesn't allow our businesses to provide favourable conditions and adequate conditions for workers, GBP goes from $1.70 to $1.20 and everyone becomes poorer.

That's also capitalism.

Domino20 · 19/12/2022 00:30

MiniTheMinx · 18/12/2022 21:35

I wonder what life would be like if we had true equality. If people had a fair share of the profit from their labour, if people had free education at degree and post grad level, if children had happy unstressed parents and we had fully funded fully functioning social welfare, infrastructure and an NHS that kept us all healthy and productive.

More than anything I wonder what life would be like if we had leaders who represented both the will and welfare of the people, instead of representatives of the elite and the capitalist pig dog exploiting fuckers that are destroying our planet, our lives, and our future.

Beautiful!

Angel75 · 19/12/2022 00:30

Just wondering if it's ok to leave my son's at home from 9.30 til 2.30 while I go to work. They are 14 and 9 and sensible. I work 5 mins drive away and they can call me if needed. I can't decide... Thanks everyone

Dibbydoos · 19/12/2022 01:20

Some people have always swung the lead. It doesn't mean they're snowflakes etc, just arseholes.

The rest of us actually get on with our work - during the pandemic I regularly put in 70 hour weeks cos there was nothing else to do.

The NHS has been starved of funding to improve things by successive tory governments who are ppissed off the nhs was introduced by Labour. Noone gets to see anyone via triage without being ill these days so no idea what you mean. And frankly mental.ill health has been ignored for far too long, thankfully people are more aware of it and hence are trying to gauge what's normal and what isn't. That will take time.

Stompythedinosaur · 19/12/2022 01:27

This is a very simplistic way of looking at things.

Companies are systems. Employees do not show up deciding to skive and do a bad job. The system makes them that way.

If employees are happy in their job they are sick less often, they work harder and they achieve more. This involves fair pay, respect and control over their work to some extent.

MiniTheMinx · 19/12/2022 04:24

WreckedUmbrella · 19/12/2022 00:27

I wish the bloody Labour Party would get back to basic socialism, "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs." And fuck the "his" - women need equity too.
Instead of Labour just farting while sitting on various fences, blubbing and farting.

The last election......head in hands. Everyone had the opportunity right there to vote for a better and fairer society.

MiniTheMinx · 19/12/2022 04:27

Why are so many adults and children now mentally ill?

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