4yo daughter calling strangers fat

[Twobirdsinatree]

I think I might be overreacting here but this has really upset me and I dont know how to handle it at all.
My 4yo daughter has started calling strangers fat in a derogatory way.
Today we were in the doctors waiting room and she walked over to a young woman who was very obese and said 'you are a fat chungus, look at the fat chungus' and laughed. I was absolutely mortified. She has not heard this from me or her father. I am overweight myself and I would never in a million years call someone fat as an insult or comment on anyones weight in front of my daughter.. or at all! I also try not to criticise my own appearance in front of her.
I apologised to the woman and told my daughter that it was rude to comment on peoples appearance because it might hurt their feelings and if you dont know that person you dont know what might hurt them so dont say anything at all about their body.
shortly after that i went outside to speak to my son.. my mum was with my daughter.. and as I came back in I heard her doing it again! So I got a little angry with her and said 'no dont do that'
After the appointment the woman was still in the waiting room and as we walked out the door my daughter started saying 'fat chungus fat chungus' !!

When we got home I tried to talk to my daughter about it and tried to reason with her and ask her why she said that, and she said 'I dont like fat chungus its yuk, I dont want to see fat people at the doctors' I tried to explain to her how sad saying that might make someone feel but she didn't seem remotely moved she just kept saying that it was yuk and she didn't want to see it.
It really shocked me.

Am I unreasonable to be very worried or is this just a normal phase I should chill out about?
My son is older and he never did anything like this. He was naughty/cheeky of course sometimes but he always seemed to naturally understand about caring about other peoples feelings and not being nasty.
I'm finding it hard to get my daughter to understand.

Just so as to add any relevant information my daughter is on SEN register at the moment and has traits of ADHD I think.. altho not extreme. Apparently at school she cares very little about authority or what she's supposed to do and can be a bit ungovernable!
She has also just gone on the brown inhaler which contains steroids which could possibly be effecting her?
Also shes had a bit of upheaval because her grandad, my dad dropped dead unexpectedly a couple of months ago and he lived abroad so I went away for a month to help my mother who is disabled (he was her carer) sort everything out.. and my mother has now come back to live with us so I can take over her care and is sharing a room with my daughter..
She was quite close to her grandad.

Does anyone have any advice about how I should be reacting to this behaviour? Am I overreacting? Is she just unsettled at the moment and it will pass or do you think there's something I'm not doing right?

Why didnt you discipline her? There wss no consequence for her behaviour. Worry less about the source of the phrase and work on teaching your child how to behave. She disobeyed you repeatedly, that is the bigger issue.

Yes. Move on.

She might. We'll never know. OP doesn't need to go round and round over it. Her DD is 4.

I would never recommend insulting a child on their looks to make them see how it feels. That is awful and abusive.

Quite an apt username really.

OP- I was one of the first people to reply yesterday. And there's been a lot of good advice and some truly appalling advice since then (see above) plus a heavy smattering of "she's only 4 she'll grow out of it" and "lots of other stuff going on"

The other stuff, hard though it is, needs to be removed from this particular situation.

Yes, 4 year olds say some horrific things WHEN THEY DON'T REALISE THEY ARE BEING OFFENSIVE. My own daughter pointed and loudly said something at a woman on a bus once whose appearance was very specific and something she hadn't seen before.

She did it once.

The fact that yours continued means the consequences weren't enough. If this isn't nipped in the bud, you'll be called into school because she'll do it there. And then the consequences will be taken out of your hands.

At 4, and socialising at school, she is old enough to know what being cruel to other people is.

And keep her away from non age appropriate shit on YT and elsewhere.

She's four - not 14 - empathy isn't automatically there in a human - young dcs can be very cruel.
Posters are overdoing it imv. If the OP had said this has gone one for weeks there would be some justification but it only happened twice, in a public place where it's hard to punish severely without risk of SS being involved.

You need to make your kid sit in their chair. You can't just let her walk about.

Obviously things are difficult and I'm sorry for the loss of your dad. But there seems to be a lot of battles you don't have the energy for. It was really really bad, and you just talked to her about it and even when she reiterated that she doesn't care and repeated it you just left it?

You really needed to be very firm, you need to very firm , you're just letting them walk all over you.

No. At 4 any child with normal development should understand that it's rude and that you never comment on someone's appearance so negatively and nastily.

My grandson asked me why I had a fat stomach when he was 3. I told him it was rude to do that and he's never done it again. It shouldn't take more than that, but if it does then you keep reinforcing better behaviour. I don't expect children to be perfect, but certain things are non negotiable.

We need to be teaching children how to treat the people around us with respect and not accept ongoing rudeness, especially when it upsets those around us.

My son (8yo) actually has ADHD and has just lost his dad from a very brutal form of cancer... He is also on a brown inhaler for asthma.
There is no way in hell he would EVER walk up to someone and say that.
They have either picked it up from school, youtube or maybe heard the way you or other family members talk and have copied it.
Instead of making excuses as to what medical issue your child has to speak that way to other people, maybe look a bit closer to home.
They need to be disciplined for that kind of behaviour and attitude.

Banned in our house too. Had a stand off with my grandson over it last week. His mum has also banned it. Grandchildren not happy, but it's not like there aren't a load of alternatives these days.

So strange as ‘fat chungus’ is an expression I’ve started hearing at 5 year old DC’s school. It seems to be used about animals or squishy cartoon characters though, certainly not people. I’ve discouraged it because in our house calling anyone a name isn’t allowed; derogatory weight connotations aside.

The poor lady. I’m glad you didn’t try and force and apology from your child in front of her; if you can’t get her to sit in a chair it would have been mortifying for the lady if you got into a battle of wills trying to make your child apologise.

How exactly is allowing a 4 yea old to insult someone over and over with zero consequences "handling it well"?

How long will she have to share a bedroom with your mum for ?
that’s not fair on your dd ,why should she have to give up her space for your mum .
u should give up your space op ,it’s u who wants your mum there
this is most probably at the bottom of her behaviour

Why have u taken your mum in ,?
when you clearly haven’t got room for her ,
your hands are already full trying to manage your children,
your house is not suitable for your mum ,or you wouldn’t be carrying her upstairs.
you cant possibly be her full time carer with your own children to look after in an unsuitable house .
your focusing on the fat issue to take your mind of the fact …you know full well your mum needs to be in a care home to be looked after properly.
what if you drop your mum ,on the way up to bed ?.
the more you do ..the more social services will let you do ,because it’s less workload for them to organise.
you should never of brought her home to make your daughter share her room ,and your poor mum suffer the indignity of being carried upstairs.
get on to your social worker asap and start looking at care homes .

I never find it hard not to hit children

I have an autistic daughter with zero filter. She would perhaps go to me "mummy look at that fat woman" or "mummy that man smells disgusting" Etc but going over to someone like that is another level beyond just no filter.

Lots of reiterating and firm consequences. I'd be concerned where she has picked those phrases up too.

For Fuck Sake

@Mostmarriedcouple NO her behaviour was a disgrace. I remember my three year old saying something embarrassing at the Dr’s surgery about someone once . It was the first and last time, definitely need to put a behavioural plan in place and stop her looking at PS4 , grown up media if that where she is picking oh up from .

Consequences should relate to the crime, IMHO. Random punishment eg no TV is unrelated to her rudeness. Better to say eg No, we can't invite your friend over to play after GP surgery, as I'm not confident you will be polite to them.

And, remember to praise good behaviour. positive reinforcement is v effective. Focus in what you want to see. Better for all to say // hear "well done for being so polite and friendly " than "how dare you say that?"

That's not what you told us before. You said she went up to the woman and said it. If you can't make her sit on a chair perhaps put her between you so she can't get past you.

The insults came from television. So direct result.

I think people are being harsh.

You have a 4 year old who you think likely has SEN and is a year behind developmentally at school. So might say things a 3 year old would.

Empathy is a really hard thing to teach. It's a feeling and if she doesn't feel it then you can't magic it up. In some situations punishments will not work especially in very young children (not saying there shouldn't be boundaries) but in any case that wouldn't have stopped it the first time. And all the people saying 'I'd have made her apologise', it sounds like your daughter either wouldn't have if youd tried to make her, or would have said the words without meaning them at all. I would not want someone to be forced to apologise to me and not mean it.

I'm not saying you handled it perfectly but I'm saying I think a lot of the posters are responding from the point of view of older kids with no issues and are forgetting that you can influence behaviour but you can't actually stop a child saying something. Most kids would stop when you got cross and explained why it was unacceptable. The fact she didn't, doesnt mean you are a bad parent it means maybe your daughter isnt typical and you need to find some other strategies.

It feels like you need some support to help with this. Maybe this would be best posted on some sen support boards for some different strategies. In the mean time can you tell her that you're really sad as someone called you fat or something. See if it brings it home a bit more?

What strikes me OP is just how much you have going on.
Lost your dad
Taken in your mum. Who is disabled and immobile. With social care being as it is, I can see you had little choice
Living in overcrowded conditions
Daughter with high needs with less than ideal sleeping arrangements.

Goodness I would struggle with that.

You had YouTube on for your mum who likes cat videos. I can’t harangue you for that, even though your son has possibly recently watched it excessively. You cannot give everyone your individual attention all day.

You are devastated for the woman. And upset with your daughter. As you should be. Some parents would think it funny or not care. You aren’t one of them.

You apologised to the woman. I am not sure forcing your daughter to apologise would have had the best outcome. She may have refused and it could have turned into a scene. Which would have made it a hundred times worse for the poor woman.

You have tried to chastise your daughter. I am not sure what else will work other than consequences. I don’t have a child with SEN but I have heard from others that ‘normal’ punishments and consequences don’t always work if a child ‘doesn’t care’.

I have nothing useful to add re the incident. But please make sure your husband shares the overall burden. Keep asking social care for help. And take moments for yourself if you can. Otherwise you are going to get overwhelmed.

I wonder if the changes at home are part of the problem. Your DM moving in and seemingly requiring a lot of support and attention, possibly taking it away from the DCs. Also the fact your DM is disabled is quite something for small children to get their heads round and then she is sleeping in DD's room. How well does she know DM? Are they close?
I would give DD a break and read up/ get advice to make sure you are ready with the correct response should it happen again.

Chungus is very common in YouTube/gamer world so almost certainly from there