To think that Henry VIII was an abusive physco

[Iwanttoslowdown]

And should be taught in school as such.

One of mine is being taught about this tosser in Secondary school history and I was appalled that it was treated with such blasé that he literally was an abuser.

So I had to retell the story not as someone to be revered or remembered well, but that this abuser killed some of his wives including the mother of his daughter Elizabeth I, had serial mistresses, gorged his way through Court like some oversized pimple set to burst and generally Gould not be taught as a good person.

Haha YANBU! And yet you’d think we were so proud of him, the way he’s taught in school so many times.

Well yes, clearly he was. But I've never heard anyone suggest he wasn't.

There is a suggestion that a major accident during a jousting contest affected his personality/decision making

Have you only just learnt this??

Everyone knows that he was a terrible person, thats his whole reputation. Even at the time when he was looking for more wives across Europe he was spoken of as someone that kills or dumps his wives. He was never well regarded in that respect

But you cant judge historical characters on modern day values

If you really want to be shocked look up Ivan the Terrible, he asked/or wanted Elizabeth the first to marry him and she very firmly rejected that idea

You have to also consider that I suspect Henry's view and treatment of his wives is a big contributor to why Elizabeth never married. Good on her

In school they are taught the facts. And those are the facts. I’m not sure they are taught otherwise, but obviously the gory details are spared as they are children not adults and the violence and torture that occurred was not for children to hear about.

He invented a whole new made up religion just because he wanted a divorce. And that religion is now the official religion of England. Bonkers.

Hilary Mantel’s descriptions of him in the Wolf Hall trilogy really bring the monster to life.

She was a stunning writer. I feel like I met him.

Absolutely. But his dad won the throne ending a long period of war. In his head passing it to a son - more stability. But he was a madman and not well regarded by his peers in Europe.

Perhaps, but that was after he'd started up with Anne and was awful to Catherine.
Also, he'd already had numerous affairs and an illegitimate child well before this point.

Apparently his son if he’d lived for a long adulthood would have made Henry look like blancmange. Still remember that quote from a level history!

You need to see the musical SIX - it’s told from the point of view of all of his wives, my teenage girls loved it!

He didnt invent a religion. Protestantism had been kicking around for a long while before Henry was persuaded to it in order to make himself head of state.

He wanted a divorce, the pope said no. He said well Im going to divorce anyway and make myself head of state so that the pope is no longer the 'head' of state (thats the short version)

The catholic church then effectively made it legal for other catholic countries to declare war on England (and in fact make it their duty to do so). Can you imagine that these days, that a sovereign country cant make its own rules and laws without other countries declaring war on it? (whether you think those rules and laws are ok or not - a monarch being head of state that is).

You're right about the wives, but it's not OK to insinuate that he's a bad person because he put on a lot of weight after becoming disabled.

After Jane Seymour died he was looking for a wife. I remember watching a David Starkey program & one princess said if she had 2 heads she be happy to marry him. Clear he wasn’t well regarded.

I don't think this is brand new information is it?

I felt the same when my kids were taught about the Suffragettes. It's all seen as very positive and it can certainly be argued that if they hadn't used violence women wouldn't have gained the right to vote, but it was terrorism, plain and simple. They did some heinous things. I don't think I would object so much if the teaching was a bit more balanced and instead of making heoros/heroines out of these people they at least looked at both sides of the argument. History isn't as black and white as its often portrayed in schools.

MN has its finger on the pulse of the most topical issues once again

I’m surprised to hear it isn’t taught in that way - children are taught about the Tudors at primary level and I can see how or why great attention or detail isn’t paid to it then (not enough time and also it’s a more mature subject) but definitely at secondary level his state of mind and psychological problems are the foundation of every impacting decision he made.

It was but affairs and illegitimate children are not a marker of whether a tudor monarch (or any monarch) is a psycho or not. Lots of kings and queens through history have had affairs.

He didn't invent Christianity - not by a long shot! He didn't invent Protestantism either.

Yes Ive been reading more about the suffragettes recently and contrary to usual views, it wasnt their violence or terrorism which won them the vote, but its a popular narrative to justify extremist behaviour in modern times.

The curriculum has changed its not statutory in primary anymore and has been moved up to secondary.
Unfortunately for primary teachers that means a term of wading through topics like the stone age which are duulll because nothing happens beyond. UGG. Fire. UGG. Wheel. that would be appropriate or interesting to their age group.

He is definitely portrayed as a tyrant.

I have read a theory that he had a very rare blood group, which could explain his decline into tyranny and madness, as well as possibly being a reason his wives struggled to carry babies to term.

The whole Tudor dynasty was brutal and cruel in a way that surpassed previous royal families. As an example aristocratic women no matter how badly behaved were never executed (occasionally starved to death secretly or poisoned). But with his execution of Ann Boleyn, Henry set a precedent. He went on the murder a teenager (Queen Catherine ), his elderly aunt for no reason other than her bloodline and changed the law on executing insane people to get revenge on a lady in waiting.

His children carried this on. Poor Jane Grey. And Mary of Scotland.

Quite, our current king included, and apparently next in line as well, if you believe the rumours. Apparently they’ve learned to have safe extramarital sex since Tudor times so I guess that’s progress.