To think that Henry VIII was an abusive physco

[Iwanttoslowdown]

And should be taught in school as such.

One of mine is being taught about this tosser in Secondary school history and I was appalled that it was treated with such blasé that he literally was an abuser.

So I had to retell the story not as someone to be revered or remembered well, but that this abuser killed some of his wives including the mother of his daughter Elizabeth I, had serial mistresses, gorged his way through Court like some oversized pimple set to burst and generally Gould not be taught as a good person.

First of all you have to view him in terms of his own time, you cannot template opinions and standards of 500 years later. Also, bear in mind , that religion and politics were one of the same. Second, in his earlier life he was cultured, educated and charming. That his personally change so much was most probably due to blunt trauma injury to his head, one that very nearly killed him.

However you must view Mary Tudor as tyrannical too. She had no excuse of a jousting accident.

As Hartley said, “ Yesterday is a different country, they do thing differently there”.

Exactly this.

However you must view Mary Tudor as tyrannical too. She had no excuse of a jousting accident

Mary I had seen a much beloved mother persecuted and banished, saw the religion that was the centre of their lives changed and its adherents tortured and excecuted. She also lived through the experience of the father she adored persecuting her and demanding she acknowledge him as head of the church instead of the pope and she spend a long time in actual fear of execution. She had no supporters and friends at all who dared speak out for her - the emotional and mental agony she went through in those years must have been extreme, and definitely warped her outlook. Come her accession, she's out for revenge.

In fact, look at the Tudors as a whole and they are definitely an odd and not at all pleasant family. Lady Jane Grey was as much a religious fanatic as Edward VI, she gets sympathy because she was young, didn't want to be queen and was executed for something she wasn't even involved in.

#Toddlerteaplease I find it quite an uncomfortable view to hold because ultimately I'm a feminist and a pacifist but my Dd1 has a very good argument for the fact that things wouldn't change if violence wasn't used. I confess though that it's a long time since I have looked at any of it in great detail and my memory isn't great though, so I don't want to state any beliefs with great conviction.

It's just really interesting how things are spun to fit the desired narrative, like the fact is always glossed over that medical advances wouldn't be where they are today if the Nazis hadn't conducted those hideous experiments on humans.

Henry the Vlll was a odious man, I'm sure, but he is part of our history good, bad and the ugly and I believe it's more beneficial to the future not to pretty up the past, but to teach it and all the unpleasant bits as well. It's the only way we won't repeat the mistakes that have been made.

Yes this!

I believe in God but I don’t follow any religion, but CofE is laughable to me because if it’s beginnings (I don’t like any religion, they are all ultimately about control).

This is projecting our current moral standards 500 years into the past.

When Henry VIII was on the throne the Incas were still sacrificing children.

It's worth rembering that we too are destined to be judged harshly by our decendents.

Let's hope Netflix makes a series about him - then we'll find out the REAL truth.

I have always been fascinated by Jane Grey. A pawn in many ways, but also deeply religious and extremely stubborn. She refused to apologise to Queen Mary, who might have spared her if she had.

Of course he was. No one needs teaching otherwise. His behaviour and actions make it obvious he was a monster. He's never, ever been held up as a wonderful person in films, books or historically.

It's hardly news is it?

Whilst I would not use the terms you use, I agree that he should not be viewed as a hero or celebrated. It is not just two of his wives who he put to death, and his daughters killed over 500 people between them for having the wrong Christian faith.

And I'll tell you something else, Richard 3rd did not murder the princes in the tower!

The series The Six Wives of Henry VIII was absolutely first class at showing his physical deterioration, and I've often wondered how he dealt with that - from being the young, handsome athletic king who everyone admired and swooned over, to a smelly, grossly overweight and almost certainly impotent invalid who took pleasure in terrorising the people around him.

Nuanced use of language to deliver your history lesson there…

Not that I’m defending Henry VIII’s behaviour but did you at least attempt to contextualise it or did you just take the values of the twenty-first century and slap them on top of the sixteenth century? Bang! History teaching: done!

Er I think a lot of people cared.

And the Christian (and other) faith(s) formed the basis of what we now call Human Rights.....

Nuanced use of language to deliver your history lesson there…

Loving the subtext that only 'good' people should be taught about in history. That'll make the lessons brief, then.

I think most posters are getting their history from '1066 and all that'.
Honestly it sounds so childish to feel the need to catagorise historical characters by modern-day standards, and with no awareness of context.

had serial mistresses

Actually on that front Henry VIII does pretty well if you're concerned about morals. Bessie Blount, Mary Boleyn, Mary/Madge Shelton that we know of. Possibly Elizabeth Carew. Not an excessive number for a 16c aristocrat, and certainly not for a king. And of course 'mistress' in the 16c had a courtly as well as a sexual meaning.

😂😂😂😂😂

I think Henry VIII should be cancelled....

'Henry VIII was a strong king with a very strong sense of humour and VIII wives, memorable among whom were Katherine the Arrogant, Anne of Cloves, Lady Jane Austin and Anne Hathaway. His beard was, however, red'

Do you mean psycho?

A quick sprint through the reign of Edward VI on Wikipedia reminded me of something that I knew but had forgotten, that he specifically chose to disinherit both his sisters, on the admittedly reasonable grounds that they were illegitimate. Poor Jane Grey, poor England.

It was an actual miracle that Elizabeth turned out as well as she did and steadied the chaos for a generation (at the cost of a lot of Catholic lives).

I think he's well known as one of the great twats of history.

Doesn't everyone know this? I'm not from UK and he was famous for killing his wives. Tbh I find it odd how people seem to talk about RF and seem to forget the hideous history. I actually was wondering if Harry was named after this Henry?

Have you seen Blood Sex and Royalty on Netflix? It's very silly, but good fun.