To think that Henry VIII was an abusive physco

[Iwanttoslowdown]

And should be taught in school as such.

One of mine is being taught about this tosser in Secondary school history and I was appalled that it was treated with such blasé that he literally was an abuser.

So I had to retell the story not as someone to be revered or remembered well, but that this abuser killed some of his wives including the mother of his daughter Elizabeth I, had serial mistresses, gorged his way through Court like some oversized pimple set to burst and generally Gould not be taught as a good person.

electricmoccasins

Elizabeth I was not ‘nice’! She had her own cousin executed.

To be fair, she did so reluctantly and after years of Mary's plots to kill Elizabeth.

I'm totally excited for an AIBU History board

Me too!

And yes: Henry Stuart WAS a cocklodger!

Yeah, she put up with years of threats! And Mary had plenty of warning. Still persisted

She had to go.

He also had an illegitimate son with a 14 or 15 year old girl when he was 23.
A paedophile by todays standards but was considered normal back then

Same. I've never thought of him as being anything other than a murderous serial shagger and gluttonous pig.

Well this has led me down an internet rabbit hole. Started off with prince Arthur and what killed him meaning Henry took his place (English sweating sickness, which mysteriously vanished a few decades later and has never been seen again!?) And poor Edward VI who also died at 15 probably because of TB. The mortality rates were awful back then. Plus the amount of miscarriages and early deaths poor Catherine of Aragon went through. Life must have been brutal.

She had to be pushed into executing Mary by Walsingham by all accounts. She really didn’t want to make that final decision. Because she knew that Philip of Spain would use it as his excuse to invade England. (Which he did, the Armada took place the following year.)

It wasn’t about her not wanting Mary to die, though. She wanted Sir Amyas Paulet, Mary’s jailer, to murder her secretly but he refused to do it. So she was forced into a public execution.

But Mary had plotted her death, too. One of them was always going to kill the other because they both considered themselves the rightful Queen of England.

And the fact that Mary’s execution was botched must have been even more haunting for Elizabeth.

Yes of course he was. Was this even a question?

BUT, it happened and history should be recognised and not 'glossed over' just because it is awful. He killed his wives etc etc so i dont think anyone would be saying he is a kind man but, dreadful things that have happened in the past need to still be spoken about!

Plus the amount of miscarriages and early deaths poor Catherine of Aragon went through. Life must have been brutal

There is a theory that Catherine may have been anorexic due to her religious fasting, and that caused her not to be able to carry babies to term.

www.historyextra.com/period/tudor/queen-katherine-catherine-aragon-what-happened-henry-viii-wife-death-pregnancy-children-divorce-facts-spanish-princess-daughter/

Let's hope your childrens' school teaches them how to spell.

Er, he really

OP didn’t bother coming back then?
Shame - I’d like to know where she ever saw him taught as a good man!

Mary Stuart repeatedly collaborated in plots to have Elizabeth be assassinated, including some where she signed documents by hand.

Another monarch would have had her executed after the Northern Rebellion, about which she probably knew little but Elizabeth, having been in a similar position during Wyatt's Rebellion, held back.

Elizabeth was no saint. She had little problem invading other countries, allowing her government to extract confessions from Jesuits, or throwing Katherine Grey into prison (who, by the way, should have known better).

That said, by the standards of the day, she was not only reasonable but actually reasonably tolerant. Very little torture was allowed in England (one of the reasons there were almost no executions for witchcraft, esp. when compared to the continent); she had a tendency to forgive, if not forget, after a little bit of punishment; and she tended to react to plots against her throne rather than murdering people just for fun. (I'm looking at you, Ivan.)

Lousy father, murderous husband...oh wait, the founder of the English Navy and father of Elizabeth I. I suspect the two latter points are why people gave him a pass for a few centuries. You can see what his children thought about him from the fact that none of them gave him the tomb he wanted (the one that Wolsey had designed for himself).

Dickens had it right - “The plain truth is, that [Henry VIII] was a most intolerable ruffian, a disgrace to human nature, and a blot of blood and grease upon the History of England.”

Not to mention his paternal grandmother Margaret Beaufort who was married aged 12 and gave birth to Henry vii at only 13.

Funnily enough that was her only pregnancy despite 3 marriages.

There’s a moment on The Last Leg when they’re discussing Weinstein and one of the guests says - “Who would have thought that notorious Hollywood shit Harvey Weinstein had a dark side?” and I do feel that this is where the OP seems to be on this subject - like it’s a revelation that Henry VIII was like this!

Another monarch would have had her executed after the Northern Rebellion

The 16c had an ongoing debate about whether it was justified to remove an unjust and tyrannical ruler. I think one of the reasons Elizabeth was so unwilling to execute Mary was that Mary was not just her cousin and had come to Elizabeth for protection but was, like her, an anointed sovereign; and if she could justify executing Mary, someone else could justify executing Elizabeth. Something that was given extra resonance after the murder of William the Silent in 1584.

Indeed. Executed two wives, numerous courtiers, thousands of monks, dispossessed thousands more, burned religious opponents, overturned the national religion of the previous 1,500 years; instituted the greatest acts of cultural, religious and political vandalism this country has known - there is a bit of a pattern there.

Today’s standards?
People gleefully follow the Radfords today - and she was pregnant at 13 to him as an 18 year old.
Haven’t moved that far forward in 500 years.

Well yes, I imagine they did as Mary was a staunch Catholic and wanted to take "heretic" Elizabeth's throne even if she had to have her killed to get it!

I imimagine they also glossed over her involvement in her (utter twat) husbands murder and then marrying the chief suspect .....🙄

BTW I am astonished that some posters don't seem to know much history. Either the teaching of the subject has gone down hill or my school history teacher was particularly good. He was very good actually, but I can still recall being taught about the slave trade, the whole sorry mess of Ireland, the Civil War etc. He was indescribably strict, but I liked him.

Margaret Beaufort was considered small for a 13 year old and undoubtedly the birth left her with injuries so bad she was no longer able to carry a child.

I believe most deaths of teenage girls were due to childbirth at that time.