GRANDMA took her chocolate back

[Myblummin]

So, my narcissistic, gaslighting, stonewalling, master manipulater mother and enabling father turned up unannounced yesterday.

I've learnt to deal with them by being civil and not emotionally involved so they can't pull my strings.

She has no relationship with our child who is three. When they knocked my child went to answer the door. When she saw it was them she ran off and hid in the living room crying. Then when they came in she continued to cry so Grandma said look at what I've bought you. It was a four pack of white chocolate. She gave her one chocolate bar out of a four pack. She reluctantly took the chocolate and stopped crying. Once finished she started crying again so Grandma gave her another chocolate bar (internally I shook my head, but I'm conditioned to not challenge her). We try to have civil conversation, but my child is sat on me and making sure I don't leave her and crying. When they said they were going my child stood up gave grandma her bag and went and opened the front door. She said bye and shut the door behind them.

After she left I noticed Grandma had taken her chocolate that she bought her.

Am I being unreasonable to be letting this irritate me. I know my child was rude by adult standards, but no need to take the chocolate back! It's just another minor aggression to add to a mountain of them. I should learn, but this time she is messing with my child.

Hi @Myblummin

I can highly recommend this book

www.amazon.co.uk/If-You-Had-Controlling-Parents/dp/0060929324/ref=sr_1_1?crid=FIHZBRUOD5BH&keywords=if+you+had+controlling+parents&qid=1671106334&sprefix=if+you+had+cont%2Caps%2C155&sr=8-1

Also google Dr Ramani - she has a podcast and youtube videos regarding narcissism - also there are a couple of podcasts with Mel Robbins talking to Dr Ramani on how to deal with narcissists - also very useful

www.melrobbins.com/podcasts/episode-6

www.melrobbins.com/podcasts/episode-10

My stepgran and granddad owned a sweetshop and tobacconist. They came

Once a week for dinner. She always brought a treat like a.bar.of chocolate. She would pull it out of her handbag but not give me it. saying I could have it after.dinner. She put it on the mantlepiece.
At some point in the evening she would remove it and return it to her handbag. I never once got the chocolate.

How do you feel about that?

Thank you I will have a look/ listen.

fwiw I read all the books, but nothing helped as much as therapy.

And even I can see from your posts (and your accounts of your actions) that you'd benefit from therapy hugely.

And yy, you don't need to move house to go NC. You can be hundreds of miles away and still be in contact. It's just an action you need to take and stick to. And it's a mindset too. You cut these people out of your life because you, as an adult, and as a parent, need to shield your child from them. (they aren't any different as grandparents in my experience).

@Myblummin Has it ever occurred to you that your D is picking up the signals you are giving out - regarding your feelings about your parents?

Young children are a bit like dogs- they sense moods even if they can't articulate them.

The reason your D cried is because she could sense your tension.

And, without knowing if you have a partner, she could have overheard you making negative comments about your Mum to other people.

Your D wasn't rude. or badly behaved.
She has picked up the signals from you that her Gran is someone to dislike and be fearful of.

I'd hope this was something your therapist discussed - learned behaviour.

The chocolate is a red herring.

It's up to your Mum if he reacts like she does- perceiving your D to have been rude.

Perhaps she wanted a warmer welcome and it didn't come.

That's her problem.

Does your D had other grandparents?
Does she only react like this with your mum?

If so- why do you think that is?

You can label your Mum a narc or whatever else, but the fact is you are now an adult and a parent.

You need to deal with her better, either by cutting contact, or being less passive when she is around you and your child.

In this case, you ought to have asked her to hand over the choc bars, and said you'd ration them out, as you saw fit.

Please consider going back for therapy.

That’s really quite far from what’s happened here though. The grandparents arrived, the child cried as it was ‘a change of routine’ they said I’ve brought you some chocolate, the child stopped crying, ate a bar, cried again, ate a second bar (which op disapproved of). At no point did they regularly display a sweet that they then refused the child as a power play.

Hi mum ☺️

OP as you are clearly still here and reading....please understand your DD cried as she picks up your moods.

If she doesn't cry when other adults visit, why is that?

Yanbu sorry it's been hard. I think non contact or meeting in a Neutral place going forward would be bette

All I can say is that she said she was crying because she wanted them to leave...

She is three, sorry I couldn't get a more nuanced answer.

Have you actually read OP’s original post? Precisely because of what’s gone on with her parents, OP needs to keep her child away from them. Manners are not required when dealing with narcissists and their enablers!

Op if you can't cope with how they make you feel then you can't expect your daughter to.

They are treating her as badly as they treated you.

If you can't bear not to see them that is your decision.

For goodness sake though don't force your daughter to see them.

I have remembered it for 65 years. Her meanness was a family legend. We all had stories. In a way, it drew us all together and made us bond!

Did everyone else bar you get a chocolate?

Many posters are missing the point on here. If grandma said 'look what I've got for you' and doesn't give the rest of the chocolate bars to mum to give to the child later, that in itself is the beginning of the control and mind games she has clearly used previously on the OP.

Yeah if a normal person did it absent mindedly it would be no big deal. But she's an expert, she knows what she's doing. She hasn't seen the kid in 6 months so what valid reason would she have for not leaving the rest for later? Don't blame OP for wanting to move.

Sorry this answer is so long. I just wanted to address your main points as I can relate to much of this.
So, my narcissistic, gaslighting, stonewalling, master manipulater mother and enabling father turned up unannounced yesterday - Oh yes, I recognise this.
I've learnt to deal with them by being civil and not emotionally involved so they can't pull my strings - Wrong. I have no emotional attachment to them. You clearly do. They do pull your strings (else you wouldn’t have posted) and you haven’t learnt to deal with them, you’ve simply learnt how to appease them in the hope it all sorts itself out? Spoiler Alert: It won’t.
She has no relationship with our child who is three...When she saw it was them she ran off and hid in the living room crying - Your child has learned/is instinctively aware that this/these humans are ‘bad’.
Then when they came in she continued to cry so Grandma said look at what I've bought you...She reluctantly took the chocolate and stopped crying. Reluctantly. That’s the significant bit here.
(internally I shook my head, but I'm conditioned to not challenge her). Uh-huh. I hear you.
We try to have civil conversation, but my child is sat on me and making sure I don't leave her and crying. Again, your child instinctively knows these humans are ‘off’ and needs the safety of Mummy.
When they said they were going my child stood up gave grandma her bag and went and opened the front door. She said bye and shut the door behind them. Your child is literally trying to protect YOU. She did the right thing. She isn’t constrained by social rules at this point AND hasn’t undergone extensive conditioning - yet... Something to think about - because if you don’t take action and end this, she will.
After she left I noticed Grandma had taken her chocolate that she bought her. So? You’re surprised?
Am I being unreasonable to be letting this irritate me. Yes, yes you are - because you KNOW this is a game
I know my child was rude by adult standards No, not even slightly. She’s actually the only one here trying to make it stop/trying to protect her Mummy.
but no need to take the chocolate back!... I should learn, but this time she is messing with my child. Absolutely. That’s exactly what’s happening here.
I did try no contact, but it broke my heart. I settled on civil because it's where I feel the least distress. - No, this is causing you a lot of distress - and it will only get worse. Your heart is broken because you’re grieving. You grieve the loss of the relationship you SHOULD have had, how your life SHOULD have been. Grief counselling/literature is likely to be extremely helpful to you, if you are unkeen on seeing a therapist directly.
I have considered moving to put at least a 1.5 hour drive between us - pointless. It doesn’t solve the problem.
I tried therapy and they suggested no contact - your therapist is correct.
I know my mother, if my child had behaved favourably towards her she would have left the chocolate. She conditions people. That's how she operates. You will be punished if you don't respond how she wants and you will be rewarded if you do - again, Oh yes. I recognise this. You’re absolutely correct.
My child was not crying to get a chocolate bar. She was crying in a way, which was saying I don't like these people in the house - Yes
God I need to get out of here - No, you need to get out of this situation
I do realise and made all the more clearer from these responses that it is my job to protect my child from this mess - 100%. Because right now, your child is protecting you...
This passive, I've given up, do what you want and I wont emotionally respond is not working either - again, you haven’t learnt to deal with them, you’ve simply learnt how to appease them in the hope it all sorts itself out. However, your child struck a clear blow today, as demonstrated by this: My dads just phoned up, which is extremely random because he never calls (and by that I mean he NEVER, ZERO) and rewrote the narrative. He basically rewrote history that my daughter was poorly and just woke up so was upset when they visited - again, YOUR CHILD is protecting YOU (and this time it worked - today you won, well, your child did) - again something to think about...
For the record, five years ago I told them I'd had enough and was going no contact...Slowly we have settled on a civil relationship without talking about why they have hurt me, because they wont - no, slowly they wore you down, to get everything back on THEIR terms
I presume they have chosen against therapy as they won't be able to hide their abuse from the family therapist. It will just be confirmed - no, it’s simply because she/they will refuse to accept responsibility for any of this, rendering therapy pointless
I'm not sure I need therapy. I've gone through the grief of not having the parents every child deserves - yes and no. It would be healthy for you if just to help clear some of these toxins from your heart. But I disagree with ‘every child deserves’? Sadly the world doesn’t work like this (yes I know we live in the Age of Entitlement) but it’s still all about how the dice fall. At this time, you cannot have the Mother you dream of, but you do have other worthwhile relationships in your life. Feed those ones!
I just think the only way now is to physically move so the contact is just reduced to funerals and weddings - no, go completely no contact, because they have already proven they can force you back into contact on their terms whenever they like (you’re going to disagree with this, probably strongly but I am right)
She clearly hasn't changed one little bit...and it's now starting with my daughter - Yep. See last answer ^
I hoped they could be good grandparents in a low contact kind of way - Not at this point/under these circumstances. Good pipe dream tho.
I felt it wasnt my place to alienate my child from them - WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!!!!! (Sorry, I don’t mean to be harsh)
I actually don't want to talk about it. I'm exhausted by it - Aye. And it will continue to exhaust you... this isn’t going away. You have to deal with this, now.

You’re experiencing terrible grief and you must focus on dealing with that FIRST. It is essential to go NC in order to achieve this. And it may take years. Frankly, that doesn’t matter. Take all the time you need. And right now, your child will be fine, as she has not been exposed to much of this.

Only when you are feeling strong (ie when you are able to directly challenge every and all behaviours you don’t like) and have fully accepted that you’ll never have the parents you so desperately want (so when the grief is gone and/or filed away neatly!) can you even start to open a dialogue with them with the possibility of reintroducing them into your life. But it must be strictly ON YOUR TERMS. If they can’t accept that, that’s genuinely not your problem (and could be a blessing in disguise). They are adults, but you’re also an adult; and that makes you equal - remember that. Good luck.

@Monsun

Thanks for your experienced reply.

Maybe I do need therapy, because I can't even bring myself to think about all the stuff they have done in the past and what I continue to worry about.

My dad did tell me to watch "Mommy Dearest" once as I would identify with it, so he does know what she is.

It's just a toxic mess. 😔

OP as you are clearly still here and reading....please understand your DD cried as she picks up your moods.

It could be that, or it could be that the child is picking up on the grandmother's attitude towards them both.

@Myblummin
No worries.

The good news is you don’t actually have to think about/process in great detail all the stuff from the past - you know what happened, who they are, how they operate and how this made/makes you feel. Holding onto the past only serves to reinforce these aspects - you keep them in your head (as we all do) as you fear you might forget the ‘knowledge/lessons’ almost as if they protect you? The way around this is to write them down. All of them. Whenever they appear. And keep this journal very safe and private (as it’s just for you). Because by getting them all onto paper (eg transferring them from your mental workspace to a different ‘storage’ medium), you’ll free up your mind (but you won’t lose the info! - not that you need it, or will probably ever even read it again...).

Of course your Dad knows what she is. He chooses to appease and perhaps that is the right thing for him? That doesn’t matter. What is important here is that it is not the right thing for YOU.

I wouldn’t frame it as ‘need’ therapy (implies some kind of passive victimhood? not applicable here - YOU don’t need rewiring!) rather, a good therapist can provide you with a set of effective tools to help you process your grief. Then, later, they will be able to offer other tools/strategies so you can learn to handle these types of people in the future.

Meanwhile/for now if you're going NC, should they ring, hang up immediately. When they turn up unannounced, stand firm. IF YOU DECIDE answer the door, block it with your foot, tell them they’re not coming in and not to turn up again. End of conversation. DO NOT EXPLAIN YOURSELF. Shut the door.

Don’t worry about offending them at this point because right now they don’t care about offending you! Interestingly, the reason your child defeated them was simply because in that moment, she treated them as equals... a good place to start?

Ignore all further/future knocking - they’ll always leave eventually because everyone needs the loo at some point...