Religious friend says my mums in hell!

[Rosiesmydog]

Excuse the rather hysterical subject title! She didn’t actually say she is, only that she may be…
context: my mum died last month. She was 99 and very frail. She had Covid. That’s on the DC but afaic she died of extreme old age.
I met with a very good friend of mine last night. GF is very religious…I’m absolutely not. I don’t believe in the hereafter or god or any other deity. GF knows this but tolerates my ungodliness. GF offered condolences and let me rabbit on about my mum. All well and good…
I spoke about the funeral, how we had a celebrant but had a hymn as my mum did have a little bit of faith and did a lot with the church when I was a kid. However, my mum was often hard work and I jokingly made a throwaway remark about how I used to tell her she’d never go to heaven and she’d end up in hell (all in jest).

last night I got a msg from her, basically saying that if mum hadnt accepted Jesus as lord and saviour then she will be in hell and that I should accept him or I’ll end up there…
really don’t know how to respond to this! Feeling quite upset that GF has judged my mum by her standards and chooses to lecture me about my ungodliness. Seems very unchristian really given the circs.
just looking for some words of wisdom from you folks I guess. I don’t want to break a friendship, she’s always known how I feel about religion but I think she’s crossed a line here and I feel quite conflicted. Im tempted to just ignore and sweep it under the carpet, but it’s blighted what was a good friendship and at a difficult time for me, given my recent loss 😔. I now realise that joking about heaven and hell to a committed Christian is a big no no!

I'd reply with something like:
'I found your message very upsetting, especially at this difficult time. If God exists, he is supposed to be a loving, forgiving God. My mum was a loving, kind, thoughtful, generous, caring person her whole life. She never harmed anyone and helped many people throughout her long life. Please think of her that way and remember how much I love and miss her before you ever mention her to me again.'

I'm sorry for your loss.

Since you say this is a good friend and you both normally respect each other's beliefs then I'd think this was crossed wires caused by heightened emotions on all sides. It sounds as though your friend thought you were seriously discussing the likelihood of whether your mum would be in heaven or hell. As such, they've struggled with how to respond and ultimately decided that they couldn't forgive themselves if you were asking a serious question and they hadn't answered it to the best of their ability. To some people who are very religious, any signs of interest in faith - eg choosing a hymn; talking about heaven and hell - hint that you might have belief. It opens a door that it sounds like you both had firmly shut in your conversations in the past. Either re-shut the door, reconsider the friendship or just ignore her message.

If you saw someone jump off a cliff into a load of spikes and their body was pierced and destroyed, what kind of person would you be if you didnt tell the other person standing next to the cliff to move back?

She truly believes that you go to Hell if you dont accept Jesus, and obviously is trying to save you. I can understand why she did it. If she really believes you might go to Hell and she didn't at least warn or tell you once what kind of human would she be?

I don't think there was any malicious intent.
Just reply back you dont want to talk about religion.

Heaven and hell are religious concepts. One is being with God, one is being without God. Hell to a non-believer wouldn't feel particularly hellish at all.
As you are so upset about this are you more spiritual than you thought? Or is it just the lack of respect for your feelings that has upset you?
I don't believe that your friend meant to be deliberately unkind, but she is lacking in emotional intelligence and 'read the room' badly. Go back to avoiding the topic of religion and your relationship will be as before.

Context matters. OP was, and is, grieving. The friend could have bit her tongue and read the room.

People have already explained why it’s a shitty thing to say to someone in mourning. You not being able to comprehend it outside of your narrow view as to what they ‘should’ feel is entirely a problem with your own lack of imagination, rather than a failing on anyone else’s part.

I'd have to tell her not to be so fucking ridiculous, it's all just made up stories.

I am fine with people having a faith but using it to hurt you is beyond horrible and offensive.

If you want to stay friends with her you will have to make it clear just how hurtful that was and how little you care for her religion. Nutcase!

My MIL was extremely catholic and referred to me as the heathen but even she didn't pull that kind of shit.

She's an absolute twat. Even if she truly felt she needed to say this to you to save your soul she has never said this to you before, she should have waited until your loss was less recent. Incredibly self absorbed behaviour.

“Someone who believed in God and heaven and hell would consider your text to be highly inappropriate and be very, very hurt by it. But I suppose they would forgive you because forgiveness is part of Christ’s teachings. I don’t believe in any of that, therefore there is no compulsion to forgive you. But I do anyway 😁 “

She didn't see that though, did she?

I had a friend like this once and she would have been agonising over offending you or risking you going to hell, before she sent it. This doesn't make it okay, but she probably thought she was helping you and it came from a good (if ridiculously judgey and misguided) place. I don't think she would have meant to hurt you, but saving people is drummed into them as the biggest priority.

I think you opened the topic though, by making jokes about you going to heaven and your mum going to hell to her. This would have made her uncomfortable at the time and why she went home stewing over what she should have said.

If you want to keep the friendship, I would reply something like "That's a very hurtful comment, but I recognise that I shouldn't have joked about heaven and hell. Lets agree to never mention religion again, whether in jest or in judgement, as it can only upset us."

I think I'd send a laughing emoji and say 'I'll be ok I don't believe in any of that'

Tell her Jesus would be ashamed of her attitude and tell her to keep her fairytales out of your friendship in future

From her point of view shes just seen someone she may have been close to end up in Hell because they didnt embrace Jesus. Which is worse than the secnario above for religious people as it's for all eternity.

And after OP brought up the subject, tried to save OP.

And people wonder why a) Christians are misliked b) Christianity is dying.

Exhibit a.

That's not the Christianity I was taught.
She is presumably in some odd sect/cult.

I couldn't ignore it, I'd have to tell her how her weird notion of Christianity is wrong, then block her.

From her pov (which I don't share), she's lying awake at night worrying about the fate of your eternal soul. She cares about you and doesn't want you to miss out on heaven. She thinks she's doing the hard, but decent, thing.

Like I said, I don't agree. I consider it a very naive, ill considered understanding of Christianity. But it's how she thinks. To her it's the equivalent of telling you not to, I don't know, drink yourself to death or go mountain climbing without proper equipment.

You get to decide if you can be friends with someone so insensitive and frankly daft.

Id text back and ask if that was her idea of comforting and supporting a friend through grief? Thou shalt kick friend when theyre down?

I’d have to respond along the lines of “I respect your right to your belief in your faith but I question your judgement in foisting it on me when I’m clearly in the early stages of grieving for my lovely mum. In the interests of our friendship continuing, I think it’s best we leave any talk of religion alone in future”

I’m sorry for your loss OP x

Oh dear.

I like lots of Christians. They do a lot of good work often in places that other groups avoid. Also when there was a discussion about the Census, many MNers had lots of Christians they liked in their wider circle.
It's fine to say you dislike them but that doesn't mean it's true as a general statement. It also speaks to your intolerance not to any truths about Christians.

First off I’m so sorry for your loss. This person isn’t a friend and never ever will be. Some people get so sucked into beliefs it overcomes them. Please don’t listen to her spouting lies about your mum. Your mum is at peace and that’s all you need to know. Please ditch this woman as a friend. She knew it would upset you and that isn’t a friend.

I'm a committed Christian - I and others I know ji=oke about heaven and hell a lot!

Your friend is no friend - and she's no Christian either. Only God can judge us.

Personally I believe that anyone who leads a good life - no matter what their faith, or lack of it, will be welcome in heaven.

I also believe that anyone who has led a bad life, but who truly repents (and by that I mean is truly sorry for the pain and distress they have caused others, and isn't just worried about their own soul) will go to heaven.

And TBH - I think that your "friend" is an unpleasant and judgemental person (says I, unpleasantly and judgementally 🙄) who wants to watch what she says about other people, and also have some compassion for those who are recently bereaved.

I'm so sorry about your mam. You must miss her terribly. I do not doubt that she is safe in the hands of our loving and forgiving God.

She can think what she wants but how Christian is it really to tell someone who’s recently bereaved that their loved one’s in hell?

The type of 'christian' who does this believes in salvation by 'faith alone'. The genuinely think it doesn't matter how much of a cunt you are as long as you believe what they do you are 'saved'.

They think that no matter how cruel they are to achieve conversion they are doing you a massive favour.

I would find it impossible to stay friends with someone who wrote that. Your feelings are completely justified, OP, respond however will make you feel better.

“Friend, I am not in an emotional state to cope with comments like that about my Mum. Please keep your own religious belief to yourself while I am grieving”

The problem is, religious belief is absolute on many issues. She does believe that. You don’t, and we all (probably) have friends with different beliefs and opinions.

But living in a democratic, multi belief society as a good friend and citizen requires tact and kindness.

She is being really insensitive to say such a thing that is so personal, and irrelevant because she knows you don’t believe anyway.

Tell her, but don’t let it touch you because it IS totally irrelevant to you and to your Mum.

Your funeral service sounds lovely and I am sorry you have lost your Mum.

The OP doesnt make any sense. You told her that your mother had faith and was active in church when she was younger, then your friend texted you saying that if she didn't believe in Jesus she'd be in hell?

By your friend's own standards your mum is in heaven.

I think you're probably inadvertently misrepresenting what's happened here. I'm sorry for your loss. Losing a parent is horrible and profound. I'd encourage you to avoid falling out with friends at this time because you might be driven to do that because of your grief and come to regret it.