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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Religious friend says my mums in hell!

331 replies

Rosiesmydog · 13/12/2022 10:18

Excuse the rather hysterical subject title! She didn’t actually say she is, only that she may be…
context: my mum died last month. She was 99 and very frail. She had Covid. That’s on the DC but afaic she died of extreme old age.
I met with a very good friend of mine last night. GF is very religious…I’m absolutely not. I don’t believe in the hereafter or god or any other deity. GF knows this but tolerates my ungodliness. GF offered condolences and let me rabbit on about my mum. All well and good…
I spoke about the funeral, how we had a celebrant but had a hymn as my mum did have a little bit of faith and did a lot with the church when I was a kid. However, my mum was often hard work and I jokingly made a throwaway remark about how I used to tell her she’d never go to heaven and she’d end up in hell (all in jest).

last night I got a msg from her, basically saying that if mum hadnt accepted Jesus as lord and saviour then she will be in hell and that I should accept him or I’ll end up there…
really don’t know how to respond to this! Feeling quite upset that GF has judged my mum by her standards and chooses to lecture me about my ungodliness. Seems very unchristian really given the circs.
just looking for some words of wisdom from you folks I guess. I don’t want to break a friendship, she’s always known how I feel about religion but I think she’s crossed a line here and I feel quite conflicted. Im tempted to just ignore and sweep it under the carpet, but it’s blighted what was a good friendship and at a difficult time for me, given my recent loss 😔. I now realise that joking about heaven and hell to a committed Christian is a big no no!

OP posts:
PurBal · 13/12/2022 22:40

Your friend doesn’t understand her own religion.

HintofVintagePink · 13/12/2022 22:44

Awful thing to say.

For a start, your ‘friend’ has no idea what may have happened as your mum was dying. Relationships between a person and their God is wholly personal.

I am so, so sorry someone what that unfeeling and cruel.

Nogbreaks · 13/12/2022 22:52

If you’re friend genuinely believes this then they’re mentally ill and you should probably pity them.

HintofVintagePink · 13/12/2022 23:28

Noonesperfect · 13/12/2022 15:21

Great post 👍

Love love LOVE this post. Great way of explaining it.

thecatsmum12346 · 14/12/2022 05:06

Showing such a lack of respect for your grief is not the act of a friend. There is no kindness here. Cut her out. This is totally toxic. Ironic really that those who profess to be religious often turn out to be the worst ‘types’. Occasionally there are times when you should not forgive. This is one of them.

readingismycardio · 14/12/2022 05:35

Who the fuck says that to someone who has just lost a parent, religious or not? Sorry for your loss, OP. She seems a bit thick!

PotatoScollop · 14/12/2022 06:11

I'll probably get a bashing for this, but speaking from experience, this is exactly why it can be difficult to be friends, as an atheist, agnostic, or a different belief system to a friend, with some people whom are very religious.

Sometimes, their individual interpretation of those beliefs delve into the extreme realm, and such individuals seem to lose their filter, in the strength of 'spreading the word'. Yes we can attribute this to just individuals who are nasty, but having some family whom are deeply religious, as well as (some past, some current) friends, it's genuinely my observation that this seems to be a common trend, moreover, the individuals saying such things genuinely believe them, however out of this world it seems to us.

I'm not religion bashing. I do genuinely have respect for others religions, feel I'm quite open to them, and enjoy learning about different religions and how they have influenced cultures. As an atheist, I have truly lost count of the number of times I've been told I'm going to hell by Christians & Catholics. Never experienced it with my conversations with Muslims, most I've conversed with are pretty respectful although just the other day I did meet a pushy one. Never experienced it with Buddhists either. And yes, I've met pushy, offensive atheists too. Although granted they seem to push their agenda via social media, yet to meet one who verbally pushes it, personally.

Your 'friend', has some very toxic aspects to her beliefs, regardless of what those actually subscribe to. She was out of order, on such a grand scale I'm shaking my head behind my computer. I'm so very sorry she said this to you at all, but even worse, when you have just freshly lost your dear mother and are no doubt in deep grief. It was a deeply emotionally & mentally harmful thing to say, but I'm afraid your friend is so lost in this shit she will never see it. I speak from experience here, just drop her. It won't get any better, and when someone reaches the extreme scale of beliefs seen here, in my opinion it will only get worse, if it even can for you, at the moment.

I think I saw mention of mental illness futher up thread. I do personally believe some of the cases of extremism we see (such as this), where those beliefs damage relationships with friends and family, are often mentally not 100%. Again, not something that can easily be solved.

My sincerest condolences to you on losing your dear mum. You need only surround yourself with positive people who are conductive to aiding you, where possible, through the grieving process. Be choosy, and be selfish about those around you. People such as this 'friend' can be severely damaging.

PotatoScollop · 14/12/2022 06:17

I note you say you don't want to drop the friendship, probably she brings some good aspects to your life. If you choose not to drop her (I don't say it lightly, but I strongly advise you do), please do not sweep it under the carpet. Just because someone is strongly religious, does not given them free reign to be unpleasant and harmful to you. I imagine you may not want to address this just now, which is perfectly fine and understandable, but at some point, you need to establish a boundary. That could start with neither of you discussing your beliefs at all, if you friend cannot be kind and respectful.

You have a right to not feel any hurt, emotional or mental upset because of a friend. It's a very basic right. Ignore it, and sweep it under the rug, and it will happen again. Best wishes to you x

Nodancingshoes · 14/12/2022 06:44

What a horrible person she is. I don't know what I believe, I hope there is an afterlife but I certainly don't believe the fairy stories spouted in the church. I wouldn't be contacting her ever again.

keeprunning55 · 14/12/2022 07:29

Christians believe that if you believe Jesus is God’s son on earth & try to follow his ways, you will have eternal life in heaven.
The thing is, nobody really knows what other people believe. Not really believe. Even if they’re taking their last breath on earth, they may believe in Jesus after a life of not believing.

Your “friend” doesn’t know how if your mum is in heaven or not. Nor should she judge.
I’m sorry that she said anything unkind to you. I would let her know how she has hurt you at a vulnerable time.

ZenNudist · 14/12/2022 07:37

I'm a Christian and think it's very unchristian to say this. Nasty. Unnecessary. Not like she's got any evidence.

knittingaddict · 14/12/2022 07:39

It is not a "big no no" to joke about heaven and hell. I should know. Also a belief in heaven and hell was not why I was a Christian for most of my life. This woman is a thoughtless, dogmatic fool and I wouldn't give it a seconds thought. How dare she.

I've been around Christians for many decades and the vast majority wouldn't send a message like that in a million years. They have more sense and compassion. The ones who would are not nice people.

Nogbreaks · 14/12/2022 07:43

I’m friends with people of many faiths, with strong beliefs, Catholics. Presbyterians, evangelical, Jewish, Buddhist, Sikh, Muslim and not one has ever come close to saying anything like this to me, nor would they ever.

i’m atheist, they respect my beliefs and I in turn would never speak out against theirs.

bathsh3ba · 14/12/2022 09:00

I'm a Christian and I would never say such a thing to a friend. That's just heartless and cruel - and btw not all Christians believe in Hell as a literal place, I don't. There are also different views on whether you stay dead till Judgement Day or are judged right away and how that happens - and who knows if your mum had a deathbed conversion. There's so many problems with what your friend said from a Christian standpoint, let alone from just a basically being moral standpoint.

The problem though to those saying Christians should keep our views to ourselves is that that goes directly against what the Bible tells us to do, to spread the Good News. But it doesn't tell us to convert people, or to preach to them and I think most of us know going out with that intention doesn't work anyway. But maybe we plant a seed and at some point in the future, with God's help, it blooms. That's how I see it.

Of course for the gently gently approach to work, you also have to live a Christian life and act in a Christian way or you're being hypocritical, which it sounds like your friend is here.

Emotionalsupportviper · 14/12/2022 09:22

SaySomethingMan · 13/12/2022 17:07

What denomination of Christianity do you belong to, out of interest? I’ve only ever heard Quakers with this view.
i know plenty of Christians in real life and have never come across any who think it’s possible to go to heaven without salvation. Ive just assumed they share the view as the basis to the faith. Mind you it’s not a topic I discuss with them.

I’ve been doing plenty of googling on this and i can only find Jesus saying those who are evil will go to hell, so far. It’ll be my bedtime reading tonight. Looking forward to it!

I'm C of E, and am a licensed lay minister.

I didn't know that Quakers held this viewpoint - that's interesting.

I have to admit that whilst I have a great belief in God (though we fall out about some things on occasion, and have to agree to differ) and believe that Jesus was/is God incarnate, I have become increasing disillusioned with the Christian church as an organisation over the years.

I think Jesus is probably pulling his hair out seeing what they have turned his teachings and his life example into.

SidTwaddell · 14/12/2022 09:29

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

DuchessDandelion · 14/12/2022 09:54

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

There's no need to Insult the intelligence or sanity of those who believe in a diety.

Tuilpmouse · 14/12/2022 10:11

Lots of people are saying the OP's friend is being unkind...

However, if you genuinely believe that some who does not "believe and trust in Jesus" will be tortured in eternal damnation, then surely it would be extraordinarily unkind not to warn them of their truly terrifying fate! What better way drive home the warning than referencing the OP's dead mother...

So, I think the OP's friend is being kind, very kind in fact as she's willing to risk her friendship with the OP to warn her, knowing that referring to her dead mother would cause he pain, but knowing that if it helped save her from eternal hell it would surely have been worth it!

It would be far easier for the OP's friend not to say anything, but what kind of friend doesn't warn their friend against a fate that's literally worse than death!

However, all of this doesn't mean the OP's friend isn't deluded, however 'kind' she might been in her own mind.

Onthecuspofabreakthrough · 14/12/2022 10:12

It's very common on here though to do so.
Billions of people around the world, all mentally ill.

Nogbreaks · 14/12/2022 10:41

‘However, if you genuinely believe that some who does not "believe and trust in Jesus" will be tortured in eternal damnation, then surely it would be extraordinarily unkind not to warn them of their truly terrifying fate!’

most major religions practice ‘preaching’ of some kind, it extends their power and influence, and gets them lots of ££££.
Often preying on the vulnerable and mentally ill.
Doesn’t make it right.

Nogbreaks · 14/12/2022 10:42

‘It's very common on here though to do so.
Billions of people around the world, all mentally ill.’

or brainwashed?

DeeCeeCherry · 14/12/2022 11:18

Why would you even have a 'friend' like that? You need to focus on your boundaries. The thing to have done before even posting here is just block her

MrsThimbles · 14/12/2022 16:09

SaySomethingMan · 13/12/2022 17:11

Are you judging her for judging? 🤣🤣

God knows. It sounded perfectly sane yesterday when I typed it. 🙈😂

Valeriekat · 15/12/2022 08:15

SoundsOfThunder · 13/12/2022 10:29

Well, who is she to judge anyway?
It's really strange when people have views like this. Religion is all about doing good, being charitable,humble and kind.
It's not about accepting an entity then being an arse to all others who are perfectly decent people but just didn't accept the same entity.

It is her Church not her. Catholics and homosexuals! All headed for hell!
If you really believe that religion is all about doing good I have a bridge I could sell you.

Emotionalsupportviper · 15/12/2022 08:38

Valeriekat · 15/12/2022 08:15

It is her Church not her. Catholics and homosexuals! All headed for hell!
If you really believe that religion is all about doing good I have a bridge I could sell you.

CofE not much better - hundreds of gay priests - I know several couples comprised of gay priests who are married* to each other - and this is accepted (good), but they are expected not to have sex with each other (I mean, really?)

Absolutely ridiculous!

Icing on the cake is that the church seems more ready to accept that TW are W (not trying to start an argument here, btw - just commenting on the church's stance) than that God created some people gay. So theoretically they can have a sexual relationship if one or other switches gender. Where's the sense in that?

*Civil partnership - church won't let them marry and frowns on blessings of the relationship