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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Religious friend says my mums in hell!

331 replies

Rosiesmydog · 13/12/2022 10:18

Excuse the rather hysterical subject title! She didn’t actually say she is, only that she may be…
context: my mum died last month. She was 99 and very frail. She had Covid. That’s on the DC but afaic she died of extreme old age.
I met with a very good friend of mine last night. GF is very religious…I’m absolutely not. I don’t believe in the hereafter or god or any other deity. GF knows this but tolerates my ungodliness. GF offered condolences and let me rabbit on about my mum. All well and good…
I spoke about the funeral, how we had a celebrant but had a hymn as my mum did have a little bit of faith and did a lot with the church when I was a kid. However, my mum was often hard work and I jokingly made a throwaway remark about how I used to tell her she’d never go to heaven and she’d end up in hell (all in jest).

last night I got a msg from her, basically saying that if mum hadnt accepted Jesus as lord and saviour then she will be in hell and that I should accept him or I’ll end up there…
really don’t know how to respond to this! Feeling quite upset that GF has judged my mum by her standards and chooses to lecture me about my ungodliness. Seems very unchristian really given the circs.
just looking for some words of wisdom from you folks I guess. I don’t want to break a friendship, she’s always known how I feel about religion but I think she’s crossed a line here and I feel quite conflicted. Im tempted to just ignore and sweep it under the carpet, but it’s blighted what was a good friendship and at a difficult time for me, given my recent loss 😔. I now realise that joking about heaven and hell to a committed Christian is a big no no!

OP posts:
LadyDanburysHat · 13/12/2022 16:12

Getoff · 13/12/2022 16:04

I don't get all the people who think the friend is being mean. Based on her beliefs, she is trying to save OP from a terrible fate.

It's a bit of a failure of understanding or imagination not to realise that to some people hell is as real as anything described by physics.

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Those people can think any way they like, but they are not people I could be friends with.

VickyEadieofThigh · 13/12/2022 16:15

SoundsOfThunder · 13/12/2022 10:29

Well, who is she to judge anyway?
It's really strange when people have views like this. Religion is all about doing good, being charitable,humble and kind.
It's not about accepting an entity then being an arse to all others who are perfectly decent people but just didn't accept the same entity.

In fact, you have those statements entiirely about-face.

Marths · 13/12/2022 16:40

Getoff · 13/12/2022 16:04

I don't get all the people who think the friend is being mean. Based on her beliefs, she is trying to save OP from a terrible fate.

It's a bit of a failure of understanding or imagination not to realise that to some people hell is as real as anything described by physics.

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If you can't see how this was an awful thing to day then you're the one who has a failure of imagination.

SeenAndNot · 13/12/2022 16:43

I’m a devout Christian and my response to that would be two words “piss off”

She is incredibly rude and totally insensitive.

If you want to maintain the friendship I would respond “did you mean to be so rude and insensitive?”

ElegantlyTouched · 13/12/2022 16:53

I'd reply saying you're looking forward to seeing your mum there as at least it'll be warm! Then block. She's not a friend.

SaySomethingMan · 13/12/2022 16:54

Rosiesmydog · 13/12/2022 11:23

No, I’m not in the least spiritual, never have been and being made to go to church as a child, actually reinforced my certainty that god, heaven and hell don’t exist. I think it’s because she has chosen to judge my mum by her (imho extreme) beliefs. And also that she’s now pushing her beliefs on me, despite knowing how I actually feel. My view is that we have one life and after that, there’s nothing and that’s my idea of rest in peace.
still trying to think about how to deal with this…I don’t want to break a friendship (she’s an ex work colleague). I think she’s having a hard time adjusting to retirement, but I keep saying to here that surely she gets support from her church?

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Has she ever said anything like this before? Do you think you mocking her beliefs opened the door for her to speak up? As a pp said, she must have genuinely thought she’s being a good friend.

If you think she owes you an apology, you owe her one too.

I would never in a million years mock my friends’ beliefs. I know several people have said she’s not a good friend but neither are you, I’m afraid. People tend to say it’s fine because ‘ it’s not real’ but it’s real to them. Faith is a touchy subject and leads to things like this.

I’m friends with people who are Muslim, atheist, Christian, Hindu, Baha’i, Sikh, etc etc. I never joke about their faith because I know it’s important to them.

How long have you been friends and how important is this friendship to either of you .

SidTwaddell · 13/12/2022 16:54

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines - previously banned poster.

MrsThimbles · 13/12/2022 16:56

Tell her she’s the devil and must be doing her hell on earth.

RunningFromInsanity · 13/12/2022 16:58

ActionThisDay · 13/12/2022 10:31

She's not a friend and not much of a Christian.

This.
I’m a Christian and I would never say this to anyone.

Hell is only a concept if you believe in it. And it’s certainly not up to any individual to determine where someone else is going to end up.

LuckyPeonies · 13/12/2022 17:04

Tell her anyone who tells a bereaved person their loved one is in hell, will surely go to hell themselves for being judgmental, cruel, and very unkind.

SaySomethingMan · 13/12/2022 17:07

Emotionalsupportviper · 13/12/2022 11:28

No, I don't.

That would condemn many people who hadn't even heard of Jesus (eg indigenous tribes etc) or of Christianity to an eternity of hell through no fault of their own. What sort of loving God would do that? Certainly not the God I believe in.

I believe that God is the (for want of a better description) creative force for good in the world, and that this force influences people to be have well and unselfishly - if we open ourselves to it. I believe that Jesus Christ was the embodiment of that force incarnated in human form, who chose to come to teach us how to be open to the Divine, and that it is through that that we come to God and eventually to heaven*.

I believe that there are many people, as I have said, of all faiths and of none, who are instinctively - at least at some times in their lives - open to the Divine; that is is the Holy Spirit working in and through them. I also believe that some people are unaware that they are open, and often lead quite "sinful" (I don't really like that word in the way it's used now) lives, but who then shock themselves by behaving in a truly Christ-inspired way (eg Oskar Schindler) - people who when the chips are down see what is important and fight for it, often at great risk to themselves.

Are some people beyond redemption? I don't know, though thinking of people like Savile, Putin, etc maybe. And there are other people just as evil and cruel, but on a domestic scale. Perhaps they are. But only God sees the heart, and only God sees what experiences have formed even the most brutal among us, so only God can make that judgement. However, no matter how difficult our up brings we can't blame our bad behaviour on others - we each have a responsibility to break that cycle of cruelty.

*Heaven being closeness to God, and Hell separation from God

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What denomination of Christianity do you belong to, out of interest? I’ve only ever heard Quakers with this view.
i know plenty of Christians in real life and have never come across any who think it’s possible to go to heaven without salvation. Ive just assumed they share the view as the basis to the faith. Mind you it’s not a topic I discuss with them.

I’ve been doing plenty of googling on this and i can only find Jesus saying those who are evil will go to hell, so far. It’ll be my bedtime reading tonight. Looking forward to it!

SaySomethingMan · 13/12/2022 17:11

MrsThimbles · 13/12/2022 16:56

Tell her she’s the devil and must be doing her hell on earth.

Are you judging her for judging? 🤣🤣

Hoplesscynic · 13/12/2022 17:15

I would send her a short text back, telling her that her comments are "ungodly" and "unchristian" and if she keeps spouting out such crap to people she may end up in hell herself.

Terzani · 13/12/2022 17:22

@SaySomethingMan If you think she owes you an apology, you owe her one too. I would never in a million years mock my friends’ beliefs. I know several people have said she’s not a good friend but neither are you, I’m afraid.

I see, so OP should apologise for being sane and sincere. Perhaps if the good friend believed that OP must starve or mutilate herself to gain forgiveness for her sins (which is what some Christians still do to avoid hell or to gain forgiveness for someone else), then OP should show respect for such a belief, so as not to hurt the feelings of the good friend. One should not mock her friends’ beliefs, no matter how stupid and dangerous they are, right?

OldFan · 13/12/2022 17:25

It's really strange when people have views like this. Religion is all about doing good, being charitable,humble and kind.

@SoundsOfThunder If someone actually reads the Bible without prior assumptions, they'll see that's not what Jesus said. Yes Christians should be humble and kind, but critiquing someone to try and prevent them going to hell is also our duty.

Jesus himself said people who didn't do what he said are going to the fiery furnace, where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:42, amongst other references.)

FurryDandelionSeekingMissile · 13/12/2022 17:27

SaySomethingMan · 13/12/2022 16:54

Has she ever said anything like this before? Do you think you mocking her beliefs opened the door for her to speak up? As a pp said, she must have genuinely thought she’s being a good friend.

If you think she owes you an apology, you owe her one too.

I would never in a million years mock my friends’ beliefs. I know several people have said she’s not a good friend but neither are you, I’m afraid. People tend to say it’s fine because ‘ it’s not real’ but it’s real to them. Faith is a touchy subject and leads to things like this.

I’m friends with people who are Muslim, atheist, Christian, Hindu, Baha’i, Sikh, etc etc. I never joke about their faith because I know it’s important to them.

How long have you been friends and how important is this friendship to either of you .

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OP didn't mock anyone's beliefs.

If you choose to follow a faith which was forced on the population you live in for generations on end, and heavily socially pushed for generations more, which has seeped into every crevice of a culture and has for centuries attempted to push out all other ways of thinking about the world, then you have to understand that bits of it will become part of the vernacular, and be used in casual conversation as cultural references by people who don't follow the religion. It's the flipside of the power of cultural dominance — that bits of what you think of as sacred notions will, when your power to punish people wanes, be used like any other cultural reference. It's not mocking. Christianity, and beliefs and customs associated with it, powered their way into people's heads for hundreds of years, so of course its themes come out in casual conversation.

Original poster
Rosiesmydog · 13/12/2022 17:58

SaySomethingMan · 13/12/2022 16:54

Has she ever said anything like this before? Do you think you mocking her beliefs opened the door for her to speak up? As a pp said, she must have genuinely thought she’s being a good friend.

If you think she owes you an apology, you owe her one too.

I would never in a million years mock my friends’ beliefs. I know several people have said she’s not a good friend but neither are you, I’m afraid. People tend to say it’s fine because ‘ it’s not real’ but it’s real to them. Faith is a touchy subject and leads to things like this.

I’m friends with people who are Muslim, atheist, Christian, Hindu, Baha’i, Sikh, etc etc. I never joke about their faith because I know it’s important to them.

How long have you been friends and how important is this friendship to either of you .

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I absolutely cannot believe you think I’m ‘mocking’ her beliefs!? How the actual fuck did you manage to read that into my replies?? I recounted some memories of me jokingly telling my mum she’d go to hell for whatever and you translate that as ‘mocking’!!! Give your head a wobble, you are utterly ridiculous

OP posts:
TarasHarp55 · 13/12/2022 18:01

Just ignore. What about people who never learned about Jesus. As if they'd be turned away. Your mum will be very happy in heaven.

SaySomethingMan · 13/12/2022 18:11

Rosiesmydog · 13/12/2022 17:58

I absolutely cannot believe you think I’m ‘mocking’ her beliefs!? How the actual fuck did you manage to read that into my replies?? I recounted some memories of me jokingly telling my mum she’d go to hell for whatever and you translate that as ‘mocking’!!! Give your head a wobble, you are utterly ridiculous

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I would not joke about anyone going to hell in front of people who I know take that sort of thing seriously 🤷‍♀️. You said you know it’s a big ‘no no’ in your OP and yet you did it, so …

ironingboredrefusal · 13/12/2022 18:14

Well she's got Christian teaching wrong for a start. Christianity teaches that everyone has a chance to ask for forgiveness and be redeemed after they die no matter what they did in life. That's putting aside the fact your so called friend had no right nor a reason to give you her views on this topic at this time anyway.

Justellingthetruth · 13/12/2022 18:15

@Rosiesmydog
@RambamThankyouMam

Rambam said it all

FurryDandelionSeekingMissile · 13/12/2022 18:17

SaySomethingMan · 13/12/2022 18:11

I would not joke about anyone going to hell in front of people who I know take that sort of thing seriously 🤷‍♀️. You said you know it’s a big ‘no no’ in your OP and yet you did it, so …

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Please tell us what you think comes after that "…". I'd be amazed if it wasn't something really crass, bearing in mind that OP is recently bereaved.

TarasHarp55 · 13/12/2022 18:18

fourquenelles · 13/12/2022 10:32

Seems very unchristian really given the circs These types seem to forget the bit about "let him who is without sin cast the first stone" and "“There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?” So very unChristian. So perhaps a "Who are you to judge?" with a Mumsnet head tilt.

I am so sorry to hear about your mum. I am not religious and think that we return to the state of nothingness that we were in before we were born. But that's me and I would never force those views on others.

But I don't think we came from.from a state of nothingness before we were born. I think we came from our real home. (heaven) We get reborn to be able to progress.

Wiloswisp · 13/12/2022 18:19

Radiatorvalves · 13/12/2022 10:22

I think I’d have to say something. That was inappropriate and rude. Offensive too. Suggest keeping it short - I value your friendship, but you crossed a line. I would prefer to keep religion out of our friendship.

This, but if like my friend (it was a different subject) she brings it up again she’s not a friend and I’d go NC.

Ch3wylemon · 13/12/2022 22:36

Jesus himself said people who didn't do what he said are going to the fiery furnace, where there is wailing and gnashing of teeth. (Matthew 13:42, amongst other references.)

OldFan according to someone else 100 years after the death of Jesus. It's like writing the history of WW1 now without referring to any source materials.

It's not evidence.

If Christianity purports to love everyone not being a dick to someone recently bereaved might just be a better fast track to VIP lounge.

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