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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Told I was 'phobic' for not using pronouns!

684 replies

NewStartIn50s · 08/12/2022 17:48

Asked for my preferred pronouns and I said ' I don't use them', pushed on what I use to refer to myself and I said I don't use on emails or when I introduce myself or at all. Apparently, if I use them I am showing inclusivity to others and being accepting. I'm not quite a dinosaur yet but why are these things forced on us. I don't have a beard (yet) and I think you can tell what I am/but does it really matter if you can't.

So AIBU

YANBU - don't have to use pronouns if you don't want to

YABU - you should state what your preferred pronouns are

OP posts:
TheKeatingFive · 09/12/2022 14:50

i really worry about some people/groups and how they define “hate” ie as any form of disagreement or dissent from their views

Yes this is really problematic and needs to stop.

Kucingsparkles · 09/12/2022 14:51

I'm imagining undecided lurkers like this: 👀

TheKeatingFive · 09/12/2022 14:52

Of course it is, as it tends to align with other hateful views.

No it isn't.

Call out hateful views when you see them. But hate by some kind of bullshit association isn't an argument.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/12/2022 14:54

Gender has a lot to do with anything, otherwise this post wouldn’t exist

Still just stereotypes though.

MarshaBradyo · 09/12/2022 14:55

PickyTea · 09/12/2022 14:50

Of course it is, as it tends to align with other hateful views.

Just one look at this comment thread will show lots of use of the term ‘woke’ and other right wing aligned crap

Someone who says no thanks to declaring pronouns is not hate-filled.

You’ve fallen down a twisted and fairly nasty rabbit hole to think this.

We just do not want to declare pronouns, it’s really simple

Tinseltosser · 09/12/2022 15:01

Thankfully in 20 years time people who are so hate filled they can’t just say they go by ‘she/her or He/him’ won’t make up much of the workforce, or MN!

Snort.

Look at the poll results, no doubt you will say skewed as EVERYONE on mumsnet is:

a) some form of ageist, misogynistic stereotype.

b) Transphobic bigots.

I hate to break it to you, the majority of people, old and young, men and women, are sick of the wampy gender stuff.

The way the TRA’s have gone about it had ensured that there will be a huge pushback.

I know it’s not a perfect analogy but it’s like someone else being obsessed with their belly button.

If they mention it in passing, I’ll think it’s a bit odd but will forget about it/not care at all.

If they keep insisting I need to acknowledge and talk about their belly button, I’m going to wonder why and start to get a bit annoyed. But maybe go along with it for an easy life.

If they then start insisting that I now need to change my behaviour and language to center them in my day to day life, I’m going to start to get fed up. For instance, demanding that I start describing my own belly button, that I’ve never really paid attention to, in emails. Or that I now need to pretend they have two belly buttons instead of one, and that I need to refer to this in every conversation.

Pretty soon I’m going to have a visceral reaction to ANY mention of belly buttons, at all. Not because I hate the person, or some small part of the population that seem obsessed with theirs, but because I’m sick of them forcing their obsession/focus onto me and my daily life.

FlirtsWithRhinos · 09/12/2022 15:06

Gender ideology tends to align with other hateful views.

Just one look at the statements from prominent trans activists will show lots of gender stereotypes around childhood clothing, behaviour and toys, association of sexual submission and femininity, framing womanhood primarily as glamour, grooming and the sexual role rather than dreary everyday wifework, caring and marginalisation, dismissal of female voices and other sexist crap

samyeagar · 09/12/2022 15:12

Ereshkigalangcleg · 09/12/2022 14:54

Gender has a lot to do with anything, otherwise this post wouldn’t exist

Still just stereotypes though.

Yep. Gender Identity at is core is simply choosing to outwardly conform to gender stereotypes commonly associated with a specific sex. For some, that choice is made on a moment by moment basis. Even extreme cases where surgery is involved, that still comes down to choosing to conform to the physical stereotype commonly associated with a specific sex.

Combined with the language some use surrounding it can lead to some very interesting conclusions. For instance, Trans Women are Women, literally mean Women are Trans Women. And take myself...a gender non-conforming trans woman, or in simpler terms, a man.

Wiccan · 09/12/2022 15:14

PickyTea · 09/12/2022 14:13

Oh the faux confusion, always funny to see on MN

I mean those who refuse to use pronouns, typically tend to be a certain type of person (the same type who uses the term woke… shudder)

why should the intolerant and bigoted be included?

What the typically non pronoun using type that needs to be bullied ?

babyjellyfish · 09/12/2022 15:18

PickyTea · 09/12/2022 14:48

Gender has a lot to do with anything, otherwise this post wouldn’t exist

Oh really?

Can you name even one scenario in which "gender", or someone's "gender identity" is actually relevant to anyone else?

Wiccan · 09/12/2022 15:19

PickyTea · 09/12/2022 14:17

oooh edgy.

Thankfully in 20 years time people who are so hate filled they can’t just say they go by ‘she/her or He/him’ won’t make up much of the workforce, or MN!

Yes we will because we will be the ones focusing on our careers and not wasting time on the pronoun fuckwittery !

louderthan · 09/12/2022 15:22

I say 'my pronouns are private' or 'I don't use pronouns'

babyjellyfish · 09/12/2022 15:27

Wiccan · 09/12/2022 15:19

Yes we will because we will be the ones focusing on our careers and not wasting time on the pronoun fuckwittery !

Ironically, I think the pronoun people are probably increasing the likelihood of employers discriminating against trans people.

I'm sure this nonsense will encourage would-be employers to bin off candidates with pronouns on their CVs or LinkedIn profiles on the basis that they're likely to cause trouble.

HipTightOnions · 09/12/2022 15:31

Can you name even one scenario in which "gender", or someone's "gender identity" is actually relevant to anyone else?

This is a truly excellent question.

TheKeatingFive · 09/12/2022 15:35

This is a truly excellent question.

it is, isn't it?

whereas sex impacts others on many levels.

Fairislefandango · 09/12/2022 15:37

Can you name even one scenario in which "gender", or someone's "gender identity" is actually relevant to anyone else?

Well quite. Whereas I can think of quite a lot of scenarios in which someone's sex is relevant to someone else.

NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision · 09/12/2022 15:55

PickyTea · 09/12/2022 14:17

oooh edgy.

Thankfully in 20 years time people who are so hate filled they can’t just say they go by ‘she/her or He/him’ won’t make up much of the workforce, or MN!

Well, I'm a millennial, so it's age-appropriate for me to be "edgy". So good to hear I'm fitting in there. Grin

Gotta tell you, my generation aren't going to get early retirement, so we're going to be working until we're 80. I'm certainly going to be in the workplace in 20 years' time, as I won't have hit the current retirement age!

Wiccan · 09/12/2022 16:02

babyjellyfish · 09/12/2022 15:27

Ironically, I think the pronoun people are probably increasing the likelihood of employers discriminating against trans people.

I'm sure this nonsense will encourage would-be employers to bin off candidates with pronouns on their CVs or LinkedIn profiles on the basis that they're likely to cause trouble.

Yes I agree . I think at some point employers are going to see pronoun use as a distraction in the work place leading to serious disputes .

Happyher · 09/12/2022 16:14

Just use the old style Mr Mrs Miss or Ms

babyjellyfish · 09/12/2022 16:18

Happyher · 09/12/2022 16:14

Just use the old style Mr Mrs Miss or Ms

These are titles, not pronouns.

SinnerBoy · 09/12/2022 16:19

PickyTea · Today 14:13

I mean those who refuse to use pronouns, typically tend to be a certain type of person (the same type who uses the term woke… shudder)

I don't use the term "woke." What's shudder-worth about a person who isn't interested in declaring any personal pronouns? Why do you want to compel speech? There is no legal basis for it.

Why do you want women to be treated worse at work? You did read some of the links about it, didn't you? I posted two, for example. Are you afraid that reading them might somehow pollute your feelings of smug rectitude? Women whose sex is displayed in their work communications are treated worse than men - even by other women. Why do you want that to happen?

why should the intolerant and bigoted be included?

I agree indeed; why SHOULD you be included, when you are unpleasant, preachy and intolerant?

Swissnotswiss · 09/12/2022 16:34

babyjellyfish · 09/12/2022 16:18

These are titles, not pronouns.

Exactly!

Happyher · 09/12/2022 16:43

babyjellyfish · 09/12/2022 16:18

These are titles, not pronouns.

They serve the exact same purpose

GetOffTheRoof · 09/12/2022 16:44

Happyher · 09/12/2022 16:43

They serve the exact same purpose

"I saw Sharon today, Miss son is doing well at school".

Yeah, exact same purpose 😂😂

babyjellyfish · 09/12/2022 16:47

Happyher · 09/12/2022 16:43

They serve the exact same purpose

"Can you ask Claire if Mrs has booked the car in for its MOT?"