Told I was 'phobic' for not using pronouns!

[NewStartIn50s]

Asked for my preferred pronouns and I said ' I don't use them', pushed on what I use to refer to myself and I said I don't use on emails or when I introduce myself or at all. Apparently, if I use them I am showing inclusivity to others and being accepting. I'm not quite a dinosaur yet but why are these things forced on us. I don't have a beard (yet) and I think you can tell what I am/but does it really matter if you can't.

So AIBU

YANBU - don't have to use pronouns if you don't want to

YABU - you should state what your preferred pronouns are

Considering children don’t get their gender identity confirmed by their parents this is just another absolutely idiotic example or attempt at a gotcha from you.

I need this on a t-shirt 😁👍

Thankfully it’s not most women who are this difficult, just some, most of which find their way onto MN as no other site tolerates this level of hatred.

You mean like making a beeline for traumatised victims of sexual abuse?

Look, sweetness, if this is your kind of 'tolerance' then as far as I'm concerned the 'difficult woman' cap fits. I'll wear it.

Are you not missing an incels rally at present or are they still hanging out in their parents' basements?

Considering children don’t get their gender identity confirmed by their parents

What does this even mean?

Transwomen are common in many parts of Asia, especially India and Thailand. It's not just a Western construct, I agree. But they seem mostly happy to not enter women's spaces or sports or awards in Asia. I wonder why.

Much as Picky is dying to have an argument and use all their best Twitter lines that took them ages to think up, I CBA. I find these revealing gloaty goady displays very enlightening, and I'm sure those new to this debate do too.

Considering children don’t get their gender identity confirmed by their parents this is just another absolutely idiotic example or attempt at a gotcha from you.

Reading comprehension. I wasn't talking about children. You said we can't assume anything.So how would you refer to Johnny's parent in the following sentence: 'See, Johnny's parent is over there, tell Johnny to ask [insert pronoun]'

I mean those who refuse to use pronouns, typically tend to be a certain type of person (the same type who uses the term woke… shudder)

That's a very prejudiced and uneducated viewpoint. I don’t think you have any concept of the variety of reasons individuals feel they cannot adopt gender-ideological language. Do better.

why should the intolerant and bigoted be included?

You mean like people who believe they have the right to redefine the names an oppressed and marginalised social group use for themselves, and thereby appropriate the rights and resources intended to provide safety and support for the original group in righting that historic disadvantage? I absolutely agree. And yet here we are, fighting for the female half of the population's right to name ourselves, speak of our sexed experiences and indeed our literal existence as significant and not the same as a self image of femaleness in a male person's mind.

I find these revealing gloaty goady displays very enlightening

Well saying vulnerable women 'don't deserve' sex based rights was certainly enlightening

Considering children don’t get their gender identity confirmed by their parents this is just another absolutely idiotic example or attempt at a gotcha from you.

But I will lol at the reading comprehension fail here.

Well saying vulnerable women 'don't deserve' sex based rights was certainly enlightening

Exactly. It tends to turn off most non psychopathic types.

How are you all doing, dear undecided lurkers? I do hope you are enjoying being educated by the Righteous this fine wintery afternoon. Remember, if you do not recite the Righteous mantras, you are hate-filled, regressive, outdated, suffer from poor cognition, will be extinct soon, and really really deserve to be shunned and excluded.

Please absorb these messages and consider them whilst deciding: is this really Righteous?

Well quite.

When DD1 started at university one of her flatmates declared they identified as female, despite the beard and being so obviously a bloke. Fair enough, my DD1 couldn't be less interested but went along with the rest. Except, quite often the other flatmates would forget and not use the correct pro nouns - cue angry and loud hectoring and verbal aggression from this bearded person. As they were at least 6ft 2 it was very intimidating behaviour.

The first time I visited DD1 in her flat I didn't use the correct pro nouns either (I refuse to engage with any of this shit) and this person was meek as a lamb. He only had the courage of his convictions when facing down shy teenagers. He knew better than to provoke an irritable, menopausal Mum who just has no shits left to give.

I find the use of social coercion arguments from the side of woke really interesting. Extremely Orwellian.

'Everyone' thinks this apart from you dinosaurs. In 20 years you'll all die out. Nazi's could have used those arguments too. They probably did.

I've never been one for following the crowd. Right is right and wrong is wrong. It's important to stay true to your own moral compass.

I find these revealing gloaty goady displays very enlightening, and I'm sure those new to this debate do too

Indeed, and straight to the ad hominems as well. Unfortunately for them, as much as they might get off on abusing women guilty of wrong-think, I don't think many hearts and minds of the undecided will have been won.

Most people don't give this nonsense the time of day in France.

Hi @PickyTea

Thankfully in 20 years time people who are so hate filled they can’t just say they go by ‘she/her or He/him’ won’t make up much of the workforce

I'm sorry you have been so mislead as to believe the only reason anyone would not declare pronouns is "hate".

I really want to accommodate trans people's identity without having to lie about my own, and without having to relinquish my own claim to the support, rights and provisions intended to help female people in a default male system simply because the language I have always used for myself has been changed around me.

The pronouns I would have used have been redefined, and there don't seem to be any suitable replacements.

As it's so clear and simple, can you please advise?

Can't use she/her, it means I identify as a person of unspecified sex a womany mind.

Can't use they/them, it means I identify as a person of unspecified sex with a mind that is neither, or moves between, womany and man-y.

Can't use he/him, it means I identify as a person of unspecified sex with a man-y mind.

I am a person with a definite sex of female and a mind that is neither woman-y or man-y beyond the differences that were imposed on me through society's treatment and expectations of my sex (and which, incidentally, I experience as an external influence not an internal self).

What pronouns can I use please?

Gender has nothing to do with anything. It's just stereotypes.

I'm not hate filled at all.

I've got this far in life without having to announce what pronouns I want people to use so I won't be bullied into doing so.

Why are people so hate filled that they feel the need to bully people into announcing this sort of thing?

Most people don't give this nonsense the time of day in France.

Well that's good to hear

Gender has a lot to do with anything, otherwise this post wouldn’t exist

It is not “hate filled” to not wish to declare pronouns fgs

i really worry about some people/groups and how they define “hate” ie as any form of disagreement or dissent from their views. Must be very fragile people.

You said it was rude full stop. It isn't.

Using "who" subtlety changes the meaning/feeling of sentence. "Susan who does amazing art work" as opposed to "Susan who doesn't". Using she states two separate facts.

This

Why do they try to override what others care about, particularly women

Of course it is, as it tends to align with other hateful views.

Just one look at this comment thread will show lots of use of the term ‘woke’ and other right wing aligned crap