Told I was 'phobic' for not using pronouns!

[NewStartIn50s]

Asked for my preferred pronouns and I said ' I don't use them', pushed on what I use to refer to myself and I said I don't use on emails or when I introduce myself or at all. Apparently, if I use them I am showing inclusivity to others and being accepting. I'm not quite a dinosaur yet but why are these things forced on us. I don't have a beard (yet) and I think you can tell what I am/but does it really matter if you can't.

So AIBU

YANBU - don't have to use pronouns if you don't want to

YABU - you should state what your preferred pronouns are

"Yesterday Antigone lost Professor keys on the train."

Do you actually know if Claire is a lesbian, or are you just spewing literal violence and assuming?

In my PS department, we have in the past been asked to state our pronouns, but that doesn't make it a mandate nor a contractual obligation. The whole cufufle about pronouns seems to have died down lately.

the rationale is that you are doing it to be inclusive and for the comfort of others. What about my comfort, I ask myself....I don't get that I'm being told I have to say something private about myself, to appease others.

i have long-since avoided getting into direct arguments that I cannot make sense of, I just don't state my pronouns because I have never needed to, I'm not party to conversations about me when I'm not present so I don't care if I'm called he, she or it.

i do however, do my utmost to respect others' preferences for their stated pronouns. If I make a mistake I quickly correct myself and restate it correctly. It is always the people who want to be known as "they/them" as I find it incredibly difficult to say that, it feels grammatically weird, contrived and difficult to commit to memory. I've never been hauled before the pronoun police to defend myself so I assume he/she/they realise I'm human.

Yes I agree . I think at some point employers are going to see pronoun use as a distraction in the work place leading to serious disputes

I hope not. I think it's misguided but generally it's coming from a place wanting to be less sexist and more accepting of different ways to be a man or a woman. It's just gone a bit wrong (got a bit hijacked) into thinking the best way to do that is to decide that Man and Woman are purely gender roles so progress is to and let people of any sex identify into them, instead of realising Man and Woman is just a type of body and that doesn't have to determine anything about your mind and personality, so we don't need gender roles at all.

I don't want to see people villified for doing what they thought was the right thing, and I don't want a backlash that means we just go back to gendered roles based on sex. I want to see the pronoun people grow up a bit more, recognise that sexist and predatory beliefs about the female body haven’t gone away just because we pretended we didn't know who had one, and end up somewhere that combines female only protection and support when it's needed with an openness to social roles, personalities and presentations that are currently gendered becoming just part of the general pallette of being human.

I hope in 10 years we look back and see this as a well meaning but naive step on a path that lead to a genuinely less sexist and more tolerant society.

Haha! Because if Claire were married to a man, it would be Mr's job to book the car in, you mean?

We had this in my last employer (local authority). I just signed off with my name and no pronoun at the bottom. Not bothered if people want to do it but you should have the choice not to do it if you so wish. I just call people by their name and use their chosen pronouns quite happily as its not hard but don't want to publish my own.

Yep... Unless Claire was married to a trans woman, in which case, you just misgendered the Mrs, so again...you with the literal violence.

That’s ok OP, I’m phobic about compelled speech too, especially when it’s demanded by ‘thought police’ in the workplace in order to promote the agenda of a group of political activists who promote sexist stereotypes and the erasure of women’s rights.

Tell them you don’t identify as phobic and can’t support compulsory statements of political allegiance in workplace communications.

FlirtsWithRhinos · Today 17:01

I hope not. I think it's misguided but generally it's coming from a place wanting to be less sexist and more accepting of different ways to be a man or a woman.

What a well expressed post, I agree with every word. It doubtless is because people wanted to do the right thing and to be accommodating, but hasn't it grown legs? And tentacles.

No it really isn’t “hate filled” to issue a polite “no thanks” or explain why not to a request to use pronouns. Grow up and stop labelling everyone who doesn’t agree with you haters, bigots, transphobes or right wingers. You just sound petulant.

All the Whatifery in this conversation reminds me why the whole thing has reached a whole new level of ridiculous and absurd

How can a human being with average comprehension ever be expected to understand this gobledigook.

Well I agree on some points , and I am aware of problems with sexism I've been a women a long time. I do not want the hassle of having complaints because I misgender people that could lead to disciplinary action and as I have said up thread if it ever happens I will fight it with utmost vigour !Sexism will never be dealt with as long as there are men that can identify as women !

There's a petition open at the moment to update the Equality Act to clarify that sex means biological sex:

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

Thanks 🙂 just signed and passed it on .

Looool.

Of course, then Claire wouldn't be a lesbian, because Mrs would be in an opposite sex relationship...

Can we not go back to when pronouns were supposed to make language easier, rather than a way for people to announce their individual identities?

Wouldn't that be nice?

I don't want to assume anything about anyone's gender identity or their sexuality tbh. I don't want to think about either of those things because I'm not actually interested.

I agree I'm simply not interested in people's pronouns or there sexuality and my own is my business Just want to get through my day and live my life and to not be forced to take part in others beliefs!

Oh how regressive wanting to go back to a time where people were literally not allowed to exist. This is such a violent thread.

ooops...quoted wrong comment. Should have been like this...

@babyjellyfish

Looool.
Of course, then Claire wouldn't be a lesbian, because Mrs would be in an opposite sex relationship...
Can we not go back to when pronouns were supposed to make language easier, rather than a way for people to announce their individual identities?
Wouldn't that be nice?
I don't want to assume anything about anyone's gender identity or their sexuality tbh. I don't want to think about either of those things because I'm not actually interested.

Oh how regressive wanting to go back to a time where people were literally not allowed to exist. This is such a violent thread.

Not violent at all ! What a stupid comment . I didn't say people couldn't exist. I don't wish to use pronouns . Not stopping any one else so crack on !

I’m so glad a TRA popped up on this thread. I think it’s a really helpful demonstration of the utmost intolerance and bigotry they have towards any view that doesn’t align to their own.

I can’t talk for anyone else, but I’ve never wished someone with different views be excluded from society yet it’s a common theme with TRAs. Facism at is finest.

What would be more compelling (if TRAs actually wanted to reason people to their side rather than scare and intimidate them) would be to explain a bit more about what gender is and what ‘being a woman’ means if not sex based so we could all properly understand and agree.

Instead we just get the usual insults (normally misogynist and ageist), the ‘it’s transphobic’ without explaining why and refusal to engage in counterpoints.

It’s a shame it’s that way, but helpful for those on the fence to see what’s actually happening.

It's hilarious because the people using pronouns hurt is those with gender dysphoria who are struggling with their identity, what an own goal.
It's also dangerous as saying you are female will affect work, many studies show this, so it continues the sexist treatment of women.

Pretty sure @samyeagar was being sarcastic!

I have fond memories of an ex colleague who I barely knew. She came out to me in the best way. We were standing by the kettle making small talk and I asked her if she had anything nice planned for the weekend and she said, "Going out for a nice dinner with my partner, it's her birthday."

We'd been working together for about two years by that point.

Zero drama.

Also when did the meaning of the word ‘violent’ change to ‘words that I don’t like’.

Roughly 50K transwomen genuinely believe they are women. Fortunately, roughly 6 billion other people, don't.