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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think colleague should have asked if I wanted Christmas off before she booked it off?

384 replies

SulkySam · 06/12/2022 19:15

AIBU to be a bit pissed off colleague booked this Christmas off when she had last Christmas off too? Isn’t it the polite thing to alternate having it off.

I started in role in September last year and she’d already booked off for last year before I started. Absolutely fine.

For this year she mentioned in conversation she’d booked it off, told me it had been approved as if it was fait accompli. No discussion and as it had already been approved there wasn’t much I could say! Quite pissed off manager just approved it as well.

Obviously I’ve know for a few months now but it is still making me seethe! She is an older lady, no DC while I have 5 DC including two disabled children.

Of course that doesn’t mean I have priority over her having time off for Christmas (just to make that clear before someone jumps on it) but isn’t it usual etiquette to take turns?

OP posts:
HerMajestysRoyalCoven · 09/12/2022 01:21

That's what you'd do in a 2 person team when you have to cover for each other surely, especially knowing the other person has a big family.

You’re expecting someone to modify their Christmas plans because you have a big family. She doesn’t need to have responsibilities to justify her not taking on yours as well.

Being ever so generous with someone else’s time and life isn’t decent.

NalaNana · 09/12/2022 02:15

I'm part of a team of three and we always run leave by each other before booking it off, especially at Christmas. It is good etiquette and if one of my colleagues booked Christmas leave like that it certainly wouldn't foster good relations but I would tell them openly that I think it's a selfish thing to do.

EasterIsland · 09/12/2022 02:47

You are being silly now by contradicting yourself.

You say this:

No where did I say that I should have priority for time off at Christmas because I have DC!

And then go on to say this:
it's not like she has childcare or caring responsibilities

And this:
especially knowing the other person has a big family.

Stop lying to yourself & us and admit that you think that you should have priority because she doesn’t have children and you do.

EmmetEmma · 09/12/2022 05:14

@EasterIsland OP doesn’t have to be lying to herself,

it’s not that she thinks she has a greater claim to Christmas off, it’s just that there is nothing to say she has less of a claim.

Do those of you who disagree really think it’s ok to take Christmas off two years in a row, knowing that this means that your colleague has to work Christmas two years in a row to cover you? It’s poor management and pretty thoughtless of the colleague

SofaLola33 · 09/12/2022 05:18

SulkySam · 09/12/2022 01:05

Good god. just came back to this thread.

No where did I say that I should have priority for time off at Christmas because I have DC! I was making the point that it's not like she has childcare or caring responsibilities (and I know this). A decent person though would have thought, well I had Christmas off last year so I'll check if she wants it off this year before I book it when she's off dealing with her DC's sudden diagnosis of a life threatening condition! That's what you'd do in a 2 person team when you have to cover for each other surely, especially knowing the other person has a big family. That's what I'd do anyway but I'm obviously a better person than her and most of you on here.

You reaction says it all! I’m guessing you posted this because you thought everyone would side with you, rather then being able to take the feedback, reflect and use it productively!

Your colleague owes you nothing and from that message, I don’t believe you would do any different from her.

Why not speak to your manager about changing the procedure when it comes to Christmas holiday and ask them to look into alternating Christmas allocation!

Iamsashafierce2 · 09/12/2022 06:19

If Christmas was available to book off then why shouldn't she have booked it off. Maybe she thought you had childcare covered as you hadn't booked it off. Even if she doesn't have DC she probably still has family she wants to spend time with that are just as important to her as yours are to you

WhateverHappenedToMe · 09/12/2022 06:20

Just a thought - those with children are statistically more likely to still have them next Christmas than those with elderly parents. Should priority be given to those who want to spend what might be their last Christmas with their parents?

SnozPoz · 09/12/2022 06:22

It took me years to realise I needed to organise my annual leave early in the year if I wanted it. It's not for managers to organise it for you. Book Christmas leave in January. Sorry to say.

Tessabelle74 · 09/12/2022 07:15

SulkySam · 09/12/2022 01:05

Good god. just came back to this thread.

No where did I say that I should have priority for time off at Christmas because I have DC! I was making the point that it's not like she has childcare or caring responsibilities (and I know this). A decent person though would have thought, well I had Christmas off last year so I'll check if she wants it off this year before I book it when she's off dealing with her DC's sudden diagnosis of a life threatening condition! That's what you'd do in a 2 person team when you have to cover for each other surely, especially knowing the other person has a big family. That's what I'd do anyway but I'm obviously a better person than her and most of you on here.

Now it becomes clear why your colleague doesn't feel the need to help you out, I bet she feels your disdain and your sense of superiority. YOUR children are NOT her problem

Sennelier1 · 09/12/2022 07:21

@SulkySam as I said before, I think people should take turns for days of. Your collegue is totally wrong and this has nothing to do with her not having a family. Wishing you all the best with the illness of your DC.

SpicyFoodRocks · 09/12/2022 07:24

SulkySam · 09/12/2022 01:05

Good god. just came back to this thread.

No where did I say that I should have priority for time off at Christmas because I have DC! I was making the point that it's not like she has childcare or caring responsibilities (and I know this). A decent person though would have thought, well I had Christmas off last year so I'll check if she wants it off this year before I book it when she's off dealing with her DC's sudden diagnosis of a life threatening condition! That's what you'd do in a 2 person team when you have to cover for each other surely, especially knowing the other person has a big family. That's what I'd do anyway but I'm obviously a better person than her and most of you on here.

As others have said, your list is an embarrassing mass of contradictions.

You clearly believe the fact you have a million kids makes you more entitled. Does your ‘big family’ make you more entitled to leave than someone with one or two kids? Anyway, it’s not your colleague’s fault you have more kids then you can cope with at Christmas.

And as for this, ‘I'm obviously a better person than her and most of you on here.’, well apart that from being an incredibly childish comment, you are really not coming across as a ‘better person’ in any way at all.

I feel sorry for your colleague really. Are you like this all year round?

DrMarciaFieldstone · 09/12/2022 07:24

I was making the point that it's not like she has childcare or caring responsibilities (and I know this).

Not relevant.

A decent person though would have thought, well I had Christmas off last year so I'll check if she wants it off this year before I book it when she's off dealing with her DC's sudden diagnosis of a life threatening condition!

Not relevant, you should use sick/caring leave if your DC is sick - it doesn’t meant you can leverage Christmas.

especially knowing the other person has a big family.

Really, really, not relevant.

I'm obviously a better angrier person than her and most of you on here.

Fixed it for you.

Againstmachine · 09/12/2022 07:30

I am betting you are getting narked off, but she has probably covered your job more times than I can imagine, due to you being off for various things.

MichelleScarn · 09/12/2022 07:32

I'm obviously a better person than her and most of you on here. 🤣
What a funny joke to wake too. Insistence you're better than everyone else because you'd place yourself first. However there's not a thing to indicate you have even considered any factors that could affect your colleagues private life, just you, but yes- you're the 'better person'....

Cheesuswithallama · 09/12/2022 08:00

HerMajestysRoyalCoven · 09/12/2022 00:25

I have to say I can’t see it ever getting to the stage where a court will assist childless people in not being put upon at work, as the need to protect women from discrimination on the grounds of pregnancy and maternity is too strong. We’re collateral damage. The better thing would be to make it so that men can be more active childcarers but many mums don’t want that to happen, so I don’t know what the answer is.

I don't see why not tbh.
It's not being "put upon". It could be flat out discrimination to say that because you have/don't have kids you must/can't do something unless you can very clearly state that it is a proportional policy to achieve x and y.
Parenting is not protected characteristics so it could be sex discrimination. So i wonder if it would be more likely a man bringing it. But! In my experience it is not men but women being asked/told to pick up slack after parents. So probably not going with sex based claim. I wonder if women with fertility issues could possibly bring it as disability/religion/sex orientation.

I can see it starting with claim about flexible working which we all have a right to but some companies reportedly offer just to parents. And soon might even without waiting a while.

Not having Christmas monopolised is not discrimination against Women. The times are changing, more of us seem to be childfree/childless and more of us will be fed up of basically a suggestion that we don't deserve private life and that we simply must support someone else's life choice with our own time sacrifices.

NoNameNowAgain · 09/12/2022 08:02

Look on the bright side.
There are about thirteen weeks of school holidays and you probably have five weeks of annual leave. If you can’t have the Christmas holidays, you can have another school holiday.
Merry Christmas!

EasterIsland · 09/12/2022 11:04

WhateverHappenedToMe · 09/12/2022 06:20

Just a thought - those with children are statistically more likely to still have them next Christmas than those with elderly parents. Should priority be given to those who want to spend what might be their last Christmas with their parents?

Excellent point @WhateverHappenedToMe I recently made a long trip to another country which has only just opened up to non-residents - I went to see my frail elderly mother, as I cannot be sure how much longer she has. Throughout COVID, when people complained about the inconvenience of restrictions, I just used to think "Well, I hope I get to see my mother alive again."

EasterIsland · 09/12/2022 11:12

But! In my experience it is not men but women being asked/told to pick up slack after parents.

Indeed. As @HerMajestysRoyalCoven says, female colleagues without children are simply collateral damage of fathers who don't step up, and mothers who enable their DC's father not to step up. I once had a colleague ask for me to cover her because she had to care for her DC unexpectedly. When I asked "Why can't X [her DH] do it?" her answer was "Oh, he's much too busy."

I mean, where do you start with that? Apart from "No."

And that was from a highly intelligent, competent colleague who is very lovely. But either oblivious or desperate.

I really DO get it about how difficult it can be to maintain a career - or even an ordinary job - and children. But your DHs need to step up! Not your single, childless colleagues.

Cheesuswithallama · 09/12/2022 11:15

Amen @EasterIsland !

NoNameNowAgain · 09/12/2022 11:50

EasterIsland · 09/12/2022 11:12

But! In my experience it is not men but women being asked/told to pick up slack after parents.

Indeed. As @HerMajestysRoyalCoven says, female colleagues without children are simply collateral damage of fathers who don't step up, and mothers who enable their DC's father not to step up. I once had a colleague ask for me to cover her because she had to care for her DC unexpectedly. When I asked "Why can't X [her DH] do it?" her answer was "Oh, he's much too busy."

I mean, where do you start with that? Apart from "No."

And that was from a highly intelligent, competent colleague who is very lovely. But either oblivious or desperate.

I really DO get it about how difficult it can be to maintain a career - or even an ordinary job - and children. But your DHs need to step up! Not your single, childless colleagues.

Men get preferential treatment in many ways, but if both parents are working full time, one parent has to take time off for child-related emergencies. They can take turns but it’s almost always going to have a knock on effect in their work place. If the husband steps up, who takes on the duties for the husband at work?
Should all parents be part-time for a few years?

Sux2buthen · 09/12/2022 11:51

Kids makes a difference of course they do.

EasterIsland · 09/12/2022 11:59

They can take turns but it’s almost always going to have a knock on effect in their work place. If the husband steps up, who takes on the duties for the husband at work?

The husband, not random other colleagues.

Parents make up for lost time, or take unpaid leave, or annual leave. But it should be parents, not just mothers.

It's a bit like the Swedish system of parental leave, replacing maternity leave. There's a year of it, but it's not usable UNLESS the child's father takes a considerable proportion of it. It forces men who are fathers to realise what is at stake, and what they need to do.

whumpthereitis · 09/12/2022 12:05

NoNameNowAgain · 09/12/2022 11:50

Men get preferential treatment in many ways, but if both parents are working full time, one parent has to take time off for child-related emergencies. They can take turns but it’s almost always going to have a knock on effect in their work place. If the husband steps up, who takes on the duties for the husband at work?
Should all parents be part-time for a few years?

Show quote history

That is not a problem that those without children should be expected to solve.

Family emergencies, that may or may not involve children, can and do happen to everyone, but the first port of call for cover should not be to look at those without children. Colleagues that are parents can also be asked to step in.

whumpthereitis · 09/12/2022 12:07

Sux2buthen · 09/12/2022 11:51

Kids makes a difference of course they do.

To the parents, sure. Not to the parents childfree/childless colleagues.

NoNameNowAgain · 09/12/2022 12:11

EasterIsland · 09/12/2022 11:59

They can take turns but it’s almost always going to have a knock on effect in their work place. If the husband steps up, who takes on the duties for the husband at work?

The husband, not random other colleagues.

Parents make up for lost time, or take unpaid leave, or annual leave. But it should be parents, not just mothers.

It's a bit like the Swedish system of parental leave, replacing maternity leave. There's a year of it, but it's not usable UNLESS the child's father takes a considerable proportion of it. It forces men who are fathers to realise what is at stake, and what they need to do.

I’m not against the idea, but I don’t see how it helps with time off at Christmas (or at other times) for anyone else.

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