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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

It’s a dog one. Who was being unreasonable?

508 replies

Ohhelpicantthinkofaname · 05/12/2022 18:02

So, I own a friendly, if slightly mad medium sized dog.

today we were out on a walk and was heading back up a footpath with a stream to the side. Most people have their dogs off the lead along this path, it’s nothing unusual.

so I’m walking up the path and my dog is a little way ahead. A child approx 20+ meters away see my dog, screams and runs back to his mum. The child is probably 7-9 years old. I call my dog back so she’s near me.

A man who was with them and I think a friend rather than the child’s father comes up to me and says “that child is scared of dogs”. I reply “ok, well my dog likes kids, but I’ll take her over here” and walked over to where the stream was a threw her ball in so she would just play and ignore them as they walked by.

the man gave me the filthiest look and mutter some choice things about me under his breath.

to my mind it’s better for a child with a fear of dogs to see a dog at a safe distance minding its own business, rather than me panicking and rushing to put it back on the lead, making it seem like there really is something to fear. My dog has good recall and I trusted her not to cause an issue. Also at that child’s age I would have thought some exposure to dogs to try and address what is clearly quite a serious fear would be a good thing, rather than feeding into it by trying to ensure he doesn’t encounter any dogs.

so was I unreasonable for not putting my dog straight back on the lead, and the man was justified for his glaring and muttered insults. Or is it fine to keep her off the lead, occupied and at a safe distance?

The kid passed by without incident btw. If I though my dogs would have actually done anything she would have been on the lead.

OP posts:
CarefreeMe · 05/12/2022 18:51

YABU

You should have called the dog back and then put it on the lead until the people were gone.

It’s not for you to try and ‘fix’ someone’s phobia.
And your attitude towards this makes you even more U and sounding a little entitled.

Cup0fAmbition · 05/12/2022 18:51

Ohhelpicantthinkofaname · 05/12/2022 18:49

But it wouldn’t, because I know my dog and it was far enough that the kids actually barely noticed it.

“I know my dog” and “oh but he’s never done that before”. You do NOT know what your dog will do, it is a wild animal who may obey you up to a point, but what if it doesn’t? Keep it on a leash and stop risking those around you. However small a risk you think it is, or not.

Vallmo47 · 05/12/2022 18:51

I have been on both sides of this over my lifetime and this is what I currently think 😂:

  • Only dogs that have perfect recall who ignore people as pedestrians, cyclists, joggers, other animals and even electric scooter riders should be allowed off lead. If you’re even a tiny bit unsure your dog always ignores others they should stay on lead. I wasn’t always a responsible dog owner, my love for my dog (and the fact she was super friendly and energetic) meant I sometimes let her needs trump that of others. I now think I was in the wrong, because on very rare occasions she was tempted to disobey and go up to people and say hello. Not everyone enjoyed it, I should have respected their wishes.
  • Don’t ever think your dog is doing others a favour by existing. It’s not your job to parent my child. My son was bit as a toddler and at age 15 still walks hesitantly past a dog off lead. I’m sure you have fears too. He would love for all dogs to be kept on lead, where he can safely pass without the dog approaching. This should be his right as a pedestrian.
  • All dog owners say their dogs are friendly. Really. Even the one who bit my son when he was picking up a stick in the woods.

PLEASE just have respect for others.

WindyHedges · 05/12/2022 18:52

I was that child very very scared of dogs. You attitude is pretty much the bullying attitude I experienced as a child. It made my fear worse.

YABU - you should have put your dog on a lead & respected the child's feelings. Who are you to comment on a child's fears - there may be a very good reason for a child to be scared of dogs.

Ohhelpicantthinkofaname · 05/12/2022 18:52

stuntbubbles · 05/12/2022 18:50

But other people don’t know your dog!

But my point was, that it was far enough that in that environment it meant the kid hardly batted an eye lid.

I thought it was a good thing that the kid actually ended up with a positive dog encounter having been afraid at first.

these replies to me demonstrate why there are so many kids with such disabling fears.

OP posts:
Simonjt · 05/12/2022 18:53

We had similar recently when our dog was playing in a very muddy horrible stream, I did point out to the parent that if I put my dog on a lead (who was about 8m away in the stream) due to the path the dog would then be about 50cm away from her. Apparently a dog meters away ignoring yoy is both terrifying and dangerous, but one 50cm away is perfectly fine.

GuyFawkesDay · 05/12/2022 18:53

Oh my word the lack of reading on here is insane

RTFT

Ohhelpicantthinkofaname · 05/12/2022 18:54

Vallmo47 · 05/12/2022 18:51

I have been on both sides of this over my lifetime and this is what I currently think 😂:

  • Only dogs that have perfect recall who ignore people as pedestrians, cyclists, joggers, other animals and even electric scooter riders should be allowed off lead. If you’re even a tiny bit unsure your dog always ignores others they should stay on lead. I wasn’t always a responsible dog owner, my love for my dog (and the fact she was super friendly and energetic) meant I sometimes let her needs trump that of others. I now think I was in the wrong, because on very rare occasions she was tempted to disobey and go up to people and say hello. Not everyone enjoyed it, I should have respected their wishes.
  • Don’t ever think your dog is doing others a favour by existing. It’s not your job to parent my child. My son was bit as a toddler and at age 15 still walks hesitantly past a dog off lead. I’m sure you have fears too. He would love for all dogs to be kept on lead, where he can safely pass without the dog approaching. This should be his right as a pedestrian.
  • All dog owners say their dogs are friendly. Really. Even the one who bit my son when he was picking up a stick in the woods.

PLEASE just have respect for others.

I do. Which is why I never let my dog go up to people unless invited and I took her to a safe distance so the kid could pass without having to get close to her.

OP posts:
purpleboy · 05/12/2022 18:54

There is so much projection on here!!

Ops dog didn't not jump or go near said child, the reaction from some on here is rather extreme!

Chesneyhawkes1 · 05/12/2022 18:55

You didn't do anything wrong. Your dog didn't approach the child. Came back when called. No issue.

Sadbeigechildren · 05/12/2022 18:57

If you see a frightened child you should be prepared to leash your dog. You have no idea what's happened to them and if they're in the right place to be exposed to a dog running free nor do you have the right to allow the presence of your unleashed dog to cause upset to your child. Having a dog off a lead is not a right.

I find the implication that you would only be leashing your dog as a panic response to be disingenuous. If he has such great recall you can help rehabilitate the child by calming leashing.

hallesmelly · 05/12/2022 18:57

@darjeelingrose this dog didn't though. If it had you'd had every right to be pissed off. It was a well behaved dog minding its own business.

Clymene · 05/12/2022 18:57

Once again @Ohhelpicantthinkofaname it is not your job to make this into a learning experience for this kid. Butt out.

I have a dog. It's not my job to do desensitisation for kids who are scared.

bozzabollix · 05/12/2022 19:00

Threads like this remind me how many hysterical women there are on Mumsnet.

No you didn’t do anything wrong, but you’re asking in a place where dogs are seen as snarling biting monsters so expect my view to be in a minority.

These people don’t realise they are introducing their kids to phobias, I’m flight phobic but when we flew I made damn sure my kids didn’t know. People might be frightened of dogs but passing that fear on in a world full of dogs is a shit thing to do IMO.

Luellie · 05/12/2022 19:00

TheGuv1982 · 05/12/2022 18:18

I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong, but there is a focus on dogs of lead at the moment, and the number of shitty owners with badly trained dogs has exploded since lockdown.

People perhaps rightfully expect the worst.

Yeah, I suspect when you didn't put it on the lead, they probably were anticipating your dog running over due to past experiences with less responsible dog owners (and there's more and more of them these days 😡).

He shouldn't have been rude to you though.

Cornelious · 05/12/2022 19:00

I think you should've put the dog on the lead after you heard the scream and the man informed you of the phobia. Your response was to brush it off.

tunthebloodyalarmoff · 05/12/2022 19:01

You were just as entitled to be there as them. Your dog was t casing them any problem. You weren't in the wrong he was being rude and precious about the child

WindyHedges · 05/12/2022 19:01

Yes, their pho is is irrational, but they are old enough to work on their fears in a rational way.

That is NOT your call.

CaptainThe95thRifles · 05/12/2022 19:02

The child does not have a right not to meet a loose dog. The child has a right not to be approached, touched or in any way harassed by a dog - loose or otherwise - but that is not the same thing.

stuntbubbles · 05/12/2022 19:04

bozzabollix · 05/12/2022 19:00

Threads like this remind me how many hysterical women there are on Mumsnet.

No you didn’t do anything wrong, but you’re asking in a place where dogs are seen as snarling biting monsters so expect my view to be in a minority.

These people don’t realise they are introducing their kids to phobias, I’m flight phobic but when we flew I made damn sure my kids didn’t know. People might be frightened of dogs but passing that fear on in a world full of dogs is a shit thing to do IMO.

I’m not dog phobic. I don’t like them, but I’m not phobic. DD is though and I do my level best to calm her, reassure her, desensitise her, show her that while it’s sensible to be wary, most dogs aren’t interested in her – they’re chasing the ball or the squirrel or whatever.

She’s still terrified – she’s little and dogs are big – and tell you what doesn’t help: dog phobia vigilantes like the OP and others saying “he’s friendly!”, “he loves kids!” and refusing to demonstrate that they are willing to control their dog by putting it on a lead. The concept that a dog can be controlled with a command is quite advanced; a lead is a clear signal of safety to the frightened kid. And it’s not up to dog owners to decide how old kids should be before they’re not allowed to be phobic, or what a good distance is – my bedroom is 5m, 5m is nothing.

Choconut · 05/12/2022 19:05

Cup0fAmbition · 05/12/2022 18:51

“I know my dog” and “oh but he’s never done that before”. You do NOT know what your dog will do, it is a wild animal who may obey you up to a point, but what if it doesn’t? Keep it on a leash and stop risking those around you. However small a risk you think it is, or not.

Except it's not a wild animal, dogs have been domesticated for more than 30,000 years.

OP is not an irresponsible owner by the sounds of it. She knows her dog, she knew it was absolutely no risk and had excellent recall so she knew there was no need to put it on the lead as it wouldn't be a problem. The dog stayed away from the child - and there was no problem.

If parents expect to be able to cut out even the most minor of risks to their child then it would be best if they didn't walk anywhere near a stream (they could drown), or anywhere near a road (they could get run over) or have them in the house (risk of electrocution, fire) have stairs (they could fall) have any small objects (they could choke) etc etc

whataboutya · 05/12/2022 19:06

Bluelightbaby · 05/12/2022 18:12

So you recalled the dog before it made contact and took the dog to an area away from the child - right ? If so that was perfectly reasonable in my mind ?

Agreed. However OP I don't think it's your place to decide whether or not the child needs 'exposure' to dogs from however safe a distance, so for that remark I'd say a little unreasonable and dismissive.

Ohhelpicantthinkofaname · 05/12/2022 19:06

CaptainThe95thRifles · 05/12/2022 19:02

The child does not have a right not to meet a loose dog. The child has a right not to be approached, touched or in any way harassed by a dog - loose or otherwise - but that is not the same thing.

I agree. Knowing the child was afraid there was no way I would have let her anywhere near him. I didn’t even let her get close let alone touch him.

I kind of knew that there would be a lot of your dog should be on a lead at all times and preferably only walked around the block at midnight where it can’t attack anyone sort of responses.

im pleased to see there are quite a few rational responses though. I could have put her back on the lead, but it seemed unnecessary given the situation and the location. The chap behind me actually commented on how well behaved Ddog was.

OP posts:
Ohhelpicantthinkofaname · 05/12/2022 19:09

whataboutya · 05/12/2022 19:06

Agreed. However OP I don't think it's your place to decide whether or not the child needs 'exposure' to dogs from however safe a distance, so for that remark I'd say a little unreasonable and dismissive.

Yeah, I guess I don’t know why he’s so afraid. But he wasn’t a tot, probably only a few years off senior school. I know it’s not my business, but it does seem like at that age he would benefit from working on that fear. Dogs are everywhere after all.

OP posts:
CaptainThe95thRifles · 05/12/2022 19:09

If a dog is aggressive, a lead will not prevent it attacking someone. A reasonably fit, healthy person should be able to hold a medium sized dog, but on a footpath, that will not necessarily protect the child. Removing the dog from the path, down the bank to the stream, is actually a better response than putting the dog on a lead and remaining on the path. If the dog had dodgy recall, then it should be removed from the path and put on a lead. The OP's dog demonstrated that its training was sufficient for the situation by not approaching the child.