It’s a dog one. Who was being unreasonable?

[Ohhelpicantthinkofaname]

So, I own a friendly, if slightly mad medium sized dog.

today we were out on a walk and was heading back up a footpath with a stream to the side. Most people have their dogs off the lead along this path, it’s nothing unusual.

so I’m walking up the path and my dog is a little way ahead. A child approx 20+ meters away see my dog, screams and runs back to his mum. The child is probably 7-9 years old. I call my dog back so she’s near me.

A man who was with them and I think a friend rather than the child’s father comes up to me and says “that child is scared of dogs”. I reply “ok, well my dog likes kids, but I’ll take her over here” and walked over to where the stream was a threw her ball in so she would just play and ignore them as they walked by.

the man gave me the filthiest look and mutter some choice things about me under his breath.

to my mind it’s better for a child with a fear of dogs to see a dog at a safe distance minding its own business, rather than me panicking and rushing to put it back on the lead, making it seem like there really is something to fear. My dog has good recall and I trusted her not to cause an issue. Also at that child’s age I would have thought some exposure to dogs to try and address what is clearly quite a serious fear would be a good thing, rather than feeding into it by trying to ensure he doesn’t encounter any dogs.

so was I unreasonable for not putting my dog straight back on the lead, and the man was justified for his glaring and muttered insults. Or is it fine to keep her off the lead, occupied and at a safe distance?

The kid passed by without incident btw. If I though my dogs would have actually done anything she would have been on the lead.

And the entire point of my post, which appears to have gone over your head is that putting a dog on a lead does not negate the risks you claim a muzzle also doesn't prevent. Muzzles reduce the risk of injury by biting. Leads reduce the risk of injury by any means, but only if the owner is capable of restraining the dog, and has the sense to move the dog out of jumping / biting reach. Leads are not the panacea to all dog issues that posters on here seem to think. I still think it's odd that so many posters fixated on the lead issue, at the expense of all else.

I have no problem with the myriad of posters on this thread promoting the middle ground. I do have a problem with one poster quoting my post to make facile comments that are blindingly obvious but not actually relevant to my post.

BTW, if you don't want "rude" responses, don't post in such an unpleasant way yourself. Or don't quote people's posts if you haven't understood them. If you hadn't quoted me, I wouldn't have bothered responding to your post.

yanbu.
some of these responses are totally ridiculous.

the dog went nowhere near child and did not react to child in anyway. it was a non event.

Tbh if you have a child of that age with such an extreme reaction to being in the vicinity of a dog, perhaps not a wise idea to take them to places where there are lots of dogs roaming around. Not really fair for dogs to be getting screamed and shouted at by random people when minding their own business. the parents ought to be working on strategies to cope with normal everyday occurrences like this.

The child was scared, and you kept your dog away from the child. That's all that's required.

A few days ago I was walking ddog in the park; there was a professional dog walker also there, and there was a child of about 12 who suddenly started screaming. It turned out the child was scared of dogs; the other dog walker's dogs had got a bit too close and none of us had any idea the child was scared of dogs before the screaming started. The dog walker recalled hers, I kept mine away (off lead) and later warned another dog walker who I could see was likely to cross paths with the child in question, who also kept his dog away.

A child who is scared of dogs is really going to struggle in many ways - in public, visiting friends houses, and so on. The parents ought to be addressing the fear, though of course it's impossible to tell what they're doing behind the scenes from one interaction.

YANBU

Yes I can see that the OP might have sounded a bit patronising in the way she spoke about the child’s phobia.

However, I still think she has a fair point. As I said, my DDs used to be afraid of dogs, and DD1 is also ND. I had to help them overcome their fear, as their friends had a dog and then my DSis and BIL got themselves a dog. They’re both now ok with dogs. (I haven’t managed to help them overcome their fear of spiders, though!)

I don’t have dogs, I have 3 cats, so I’m not an ‘entitled dog owner’. But I think that, as it’s impossible to avoid dogs, surely it makes some sense to find a way to overcome the fear of dogs? There are so many of them around, including potentially in the homes of family members or school friends.

I don't care. Dogs should be on leads in shared spaces. If there are others around keep it under control, on a lead, as no one can predict how an animal might react, no matter how well trained they are.

So your contribution to this, specific AIBU is a generalisation.

Helpful.

To reiterate: not all dogs on leads are under control. Not all dogs off lead are out of control.

Dog wardens do not consider off lead dogs "out of control".

Actually, the issue here wasn't the unpredictable behaviour of the dog, it was that of the child so maybe if we put the boot on the other foot all feral/scream tendency kids should be better controlled?

Dog owners who don't keep their dogs on leads in shared spaces are being unreasonable.

Not according to the law and common sense.

Do I need to keep my dog on lead on the field footpaths with nobody around? What about the local racecourse where hundreds of dogs get walked.....and park run happens on Saturday morning?

There's space for everyone to do their thing here with common sense.

Dog owners need to invest the proper time and money TRAINING their dogs. I've spent hours and hours and £ gundog training and mine is young but his whistle training is nearly there now.

Those with phobic kids need to help them. I totally understand it, my own DS was terrified as a toddler. What cured him? An afternoon with a friend's soppy old Labrador. And me, as a parent allaying those fears to show him caution is fine but his fear was overly "large". So we taught him the basics: don't approach an unknown dog (on or off lead) ask owner before doing so, understand dog body language so you know what it's saying to you.

My youngest was bitten by a dog in the park. Do I blame the dog? Nope. I blame the crap owner and their total lack of training of the dog.

In THIS case the dog owner did nothing wrong in terms of recalling the dog and keeping it away from the child.

I never said it was the law. I don't want a dog approaching me or my children. So keep it on a lead in a shared space. You can bang on all you like about training, responsibility etc etc. But people come first and if someone is frightened or whatever, it's not your place to tell them how to overcome that. It's your responsibility as a dog owner to keep it under control in a shared space.

Nothing you say is going to convince me otherwise. I've had my fill of dogs and their mess being everywhere during lockdown and I appreciate not all owners are irresponsible but paths, parks etc are for people first and foremost. Keep them on a lead and out of my way.

I never said it was my responsibility. Read my post. It's the PARENTS responsibility to help their child.

Yep, paths and parks are for people. And people have dogs. And those people have just as much right to be there are you.

I note you didn't respond to my situations where I and half the rest of town seem to use "shared space" perfectly happily with runners, walkers etc. Because it just takes some consideration on both sides.

But no, I won't be putting my well trained dog on lead when he's metres away from you just because you demand it. You have no right to do that. Equally, I will respect your space by training my dog not to approach others.

The dog didn’t approach or jump, the dog moved away.

the owners weren’t awful, they recalled their dog and it moved away.

A runner isn't going to jump up on me or bite me though are they? As I've already said, people come first. Parents should manage their children absolutely, but children can be loud and unpredictable. They may also be frightened or nerodivergent, hence them appearing "out of control". But they are also just kids at the end of the day and more important than your dog, whether you like it or not.

One time an irresponsible dog owner, who's red setter puppy (but still pretty big) was jumping at my 6 year old and his friend while I carried my baby in a sling, told my friend who's son was petrified of the animal that he should 'not be scared '. Perhaps she should work on that with him, but that dog SHOULD NOT have been allowed to come near him or me with my baby in a sling in the first place. It was a shared space and its behaviour could not be predicted, indeed it was out of control.

No matter how well trained an animal is, you cannot always predict it's behaviour. I don't want jumped on or bitten, the first having happened to me on countless occasions and the 2nd twice. One incident is unacceptable and I certainly do not want the same thing happening to my children.

Keep your dog on a lead in shared spaces.

Well trained humans are also unpredictable

OPs dog went into the stream, as directed by OP . It didn’t cause a problem with the child in question? Did it?

Keep it on a lead. I'm not budging. Perhaps the OPs ultimately passed without issue, yes. But people come before dogs and you cannot always predict the dog's behaviour.

Nope, mine loves nothing more than an off lead run. She’s a large bread, well trained and you don’t make the rules (thankfully), she prefers off lead and so do I.

of you don’t like the fact that dogs are off lead, you’re going to have to go to dog free areas, the law rules, not your feelings.

I should be able to go to my local park or walk down the pavement without a dog jumping up or biting me. Both these things have happened to me (and my children) because dogs have been out of control off the lead. At no time have I mentioned the law but I'm talking about people's safety and comfort not my feelings. Dogs should be kept on a lead on shared spaces and that's your responsibility as a dog owner.

@Justdontbejudgy (ironic username btw), you might feel that dogs should always be on the lead but given that the law says completely different you are unreasonable to expect other members of the public to indulge your preferences.
While dog owners should take reasonable steps to prevent their pet actively being a nuisance to others, it is not their responsibility to ensure your child is not frightened. (Obviously it is their responsibility to ensure your child is not physically harmed but it's not up to you to arbitrarily decide what precautions should be taken to prevent that).

I don’t and won’t keep my dog on a lead as it neither jumps nor bites!

You’ve given one example of a puppet red setter super cute I’m sure then act like every dog is a threat.

**

I don’t understand what you’re saying. OP walked her dog, off lead, in a countryside setting - where dogs are welcome, off lead. A child screams about a dog. OP directs her dog to a stream to allow child to pass on the path. Child passes without incident. What’s your problem? Seriously. I’m confused 🤷🏻‍♀️

@Justdontbejudgy wants to make up rules that she likes, despite that not being an option.

Yabu.
You know the child is scared. Whether they should be scared or should be facing their fear isn't your call. Not your place to judge. You don't know what the child has been through or what they are doing to address the fear. You don't have the information to make the decision they should not feel scared.

You know your dog won't hurt them and will come to you. They don't know your dog other than its a potentially unpredictable animal with sharp teeth.

It's not hard. Someone is scared put the dog on a lead for a few minutes until they are gone. Doesn't need to be an issue.

It's not a judgement to say people should take responsibility for their dogs. They should. The OP put it put there and I am just responding to it. So no irony there.

It's not arbitrary either, when on several occasions I've had unwanted contact with a dog off a lead (including being bitten!) while going about my own business not bothering anyone. People should keep their dog restrained in shared spaces.

Perhaps it is a symptom of increased ownership since lockdown without ensuring the necessary training. But I have every right not to be harrased by a dog that's not on a lead in a shared space. And when someone tells me 'It's fine' when the dog jumps up on me or my child, it's absolutely not!

If we were all allowed to just make up our own rules, then I'd rather not have to share a path or park or whatever with people like @Justdontbejudgy but I realise that the world doesn't revolve around my own personal preferences

YABU.

You saw from a distance that the child was afraid of dogs. It is not for you to decide how to address that fear and whether more exposure to risk is good for the child.

Just put your dog on the lead next time, and every time.