Asked to borrow some money from DP over Xmas period

[Ajaal]

Hi, me and DP have been together for 8 years. We have a 1 year old child and I work part time and care for our child, him full time.
We both pay into the joint account, him obviously more than me but I contribute what I can. After paying the joint account, my phone bill, my car tax monthly payments I am currently only left with about £150 per month to live on which has to pay for my fuel and daily living expenses. This month I have nearly run out because of Christmas and buying people presents. I asked him if I would be able to borrow some money and then pay it back to him after pay day, so that I would be able to go out to my works Christmas dinner. He had a less that happy reaction to me asking for some money.
Am I being unreasonable? He seems to think I am living a life of some sort of luxury ..... which couldn't be further from truth

It is really hard when older mum setters come along and point out what they have seen happen over and over again. Some of us had it happen to us, and are just passing on what we know.
marriage gives financial protection to the lower earner.

financial independence at all stages of life, and planning for the future are vital. Start tomorrow, and don’t stand for him bullying you

@Ajaal can I ask whether you have discussed marriage together? Is it a case of him being actively anti marriage, or is it just laziness on his part and not thinking through what it means for you long term?

If you told him tonight that you would like to get married, what would he say?

This is the problem when people want to keep their own finances.

Surely if a couple are committed enough to each other (even if unmarried) to live together and have children then they should get their finances sorted out.

In the case of a split, not being married benefits him more than you. Whether it was your choice or not, working pt has damaged your pension, earning ability and career progression. It is VERY easy to find yourself in a situation where you feel you can’t split because of your financial position. Couple that with financial control (“dp feels I am bad with money”, “i asked to borrow…”) and you can have a very very toxic situation fast. Marriage gives some protections to the financially vulnerable partner.

Think long and hard about your position. Things don’t tend to get “better”, they tend to get worse.

This is part of the reason I went back to working full time. In the end, you need to make sure you aren’t left in a precarious situation. It’s odd that this is smt which seems to happen predominantly to women.

@isthewashingdryyet I'm not sure it's necessarily an age thing (I'm 37 now). I was 21 and had an unplanned baby out of wedlock. I knew the score then.

I wonder whether parental (and wider family) attitudes to marriage play a part.

He's left with £400..... of which he does put a lot into savings for us.

You will never see a single £ of this money. Sadly, you have been sleepwalking through this relationship, and you've allowed yourself to be completely taken advantage of. I don't think there's a chance in hell that this relationship will survive.

And also OP, when you get a full time job, you absolutely DO NOT cover all sick days and appointments etc. If he bitches that he earns more so his job is more important, you can point out that you’re not married so his money is his and therefore it’s not your problem, or your role to sacrifice your own progression in order to support his.

You need to start looking out for yourself as much as he is looking out for himself.

And by borrow I meant I would pay the money back to him after my pay day.

WHY?

You have a child together, you own a house together, so why don't you share whatever money comes into your joint relationship?

Why the fuck do you need to pay your partner back? I truly do not understand.

Ps, financial abuse isn’t necessarily motivated by a deep down nasty need to control. It’s more complicated than that. When I didn’t work (also when worked pt) there was an element of “do you really need to spend that on a haircut”. I would not describe my dh as abusive. But when I started earning ft, all this stopped. And there was renewed appreciation for the “childcare” that I did, given dh could now see how much it “cost” to outsource it.

All in all, I recognised that smt nasty was creeping in to our family and took steps to nip in bud. Perhaps it would have been wonderful if dh didn’t descend to “how much did you say it was” behaviour. But no one is perfect.

Just to say - doesn’t mean you dp is a monster. Or that it is abuse. But it is reason to stop and question. Would you be better married (yes!) and would it be better to make sure you are financially independent (yes I think!).

Haven't read everyone's replies but I'm sure it's been said. Can you cost up childcare - as in with an actual nursery/childminder or both, and present it to him that you're saving him 50% of that figure by being part time? So many men just see what you do as 'time off' and being faced with cold hard facts about how it would hit his pocket can, sometimes, snap them out of it.

If you really don't want to get married then you should at least be true partners (that's the "P" in "DP").

So that means, you come up with a fairer division of money into the joint account. You have equal money for personal spending. You have joint savings OR you both have your own equal personal savings. Your pension provision is equal to his (which may mean him paying into a pension for you). You come up with a fair division of childcare/housework (equal leisure time is a commonly suggested rule of thumb on MN) Etc.

Depends whether you want to be partners or not really ....

I can't believe you have been with this man for 8 years and don't have access to shared money.

Why are you having to ask for money when you are a family? That's ridiculous 😒

Tell him your going bk to work full time so he will have to pay half the nursery fees soon change his mind, be alot cheaper for him to help you out with money every now and again.

Sadly being married doesn't necessarily stop blokes like this and can make them worse as they know it's harder for you to leave.

My XH threatened to turn the heating off at the mains one Christmas because I didn't make my monthly contribution as I'd bought presents for both families and our child.

He was earning twice as much as me at the time and the house was in his sole name...yes I know, I got out, lawyered up and wised up!

This is why I like the concept of “use it or lose it” paternal leave, and a meaningful chunk thereof. I think the drudgery and artistry of parenting need to be experienced to be truly understood.

We have 3 DCs. My DH has always taken 2 months of leave when I’ve gone back to work when the kids were 6-9 months old. I truly believe he’s a more competent parent and empathetic partner because of it.

Also, things have evolved over the last few years so that I earn 3x what he does, and he does 60-70-% of the day to day childcare. Although I often work 60 hour weeks, sometimes even 20 hour days, with a crazy travel schedule, I don’t believe I have a harder time than he does with 3 young DCs. I totally acknowledge that I’m only able to do the work that I love, because he’s able to pick up the slack at home.

It would never cross my mind to limit his spending of our joint money. We also contribute to his pension from my earnings, because his salary doesn’t allow him to contribute the full amount.

Raising children is real work. And children or no children, in a real and caring partnership I think joint control of finances is a must.

@TakingThePlunge22 but presumably the marriage certificate ensured that you didn't walk out empty handed in the divorce...

marriage won't stop someone being financially abusive, but it gives you way better standing when you part ways.

Not to pile on the OP, but I too grow weary of these threads. So many women treated like second class citizens by the men who are supposed to love them the most because they have the audacity to have a child.

YANBU @Ajaal. He’s out of order.

Well that’s not very smart.

I can understand it if you were financially independent and had an equal partnership with equal earning opportunities and equal contributions or you were financially better off than him but you’re working only part time but doing the child care etc for free while he gets to earn more and save more into his own savings. Not to mention you’re begging him for scraps and he’s effectively calling you a silly woman that doesn’t know how to manage money. He clearly doesn’t respect you or value your non paid contributions.

anyway if you were married at least you’d have access to his money when divorced. I know that doesn’t change things whilst married but I have a feeling he’d treat you better than he’s presently treating you if he knew that if you decide to leave you’d be financially better off and it would mean you get some recognition for your unpaid contributions in childcare while he got to save more as you were enabling him to. As it stands he knows if you leave you’ll still be in the same financial situation so essentially it’s keeping you trapped. I can imagine him not being keen on marriage and I’m sure he will definitely not be keen on the idea going forward.

I am not British and I am older, and I find myself thinking the same. The vulnerability women agree too boggles the mind. Does equality only help men?

Sorry OP but you need to go back to work FT. He then needs to pay half of the childcare costs.

Did you desire to have less money, a partner who looks down on you, to do all the housework, childcare and cooking and to not have free access to savings?

I mean don't get me wrong, marriage is no protection against most of that, but it would have given you access to your share of the aavings in the event of a divorce

It's not about a big wedding. It's about legal rights.

1. If he dies: who gets the house? His pension? His savings? Without a will, a wife or civil partner gets the first £270,000 and half of the rest. It's also a lot more tax-efficient than trying to do it between an unmarried couple.

2. If he leaves you, all assets are treated as joint in the divorce. This means you keep a roof over your head and a claim to any monies - which matters as you are a low earner due to raising your children.

3. Being a wife gives you next-of-kin rights over medical treatment (if it ever came to that).

If you are not into marriage, get a civil partnership in place. It can be done for under £100 and an hour of your time.

Yes this!
you have to be ruthless now op. Get angry.

You've made yourself extremely vulnerable whilst he gets his pots washed and his laundry done and tucks money away into his own savings (not yours) every month.

It depends how you view equality. I view equality that both of us in our marriage are equal regardless of how important our jobs are, or how much money we are paid. So all money get paid straight into the joint account and then three sums of money come out, my personal money to my account, his personal money to his account (these are the same value) and if we can afford it savings to a savings account.

Then housework etc is divided equally based on available leisure time. So he has a commute and I work from home so I tend to do a bit more, but that has also worked the other way in previous roles. He does still do a bit more sometimes because I have a disability that can flare up but it works out roughly fair.

I currently earn more than him, he's previously earnt more than me, it's irrelevant to how we share money or chores. That's equality to me.

Long term relationships where women fund maternity leave out of their savings, pay half iof everything whilst working part time and doing childcare and earning significantly less, or thinking that paying for childcare is their sole responsibility is not equality. Its just financially abusive relationships under another guise.