Things in RECENT times you can’t quite believe we’re seen as ‘ok’

[LydiaBennetsUglyBonnet]

The Jeremy Kyle Show. Middle class man shouts at poor people who aren’t terribly bright, for not being perfect humans. So pleased it ended.

On X Factor and BGT when they used to show ‘funny’ auditions of people who believed they had talent but really didn’t so got laughed at. They then brought them back for the final to do a humiliating routine live so they could be laughed at more.

Supernanny. Childless woman who can barely speak properly pulls lemon faces, tells parents they’re shit and Instills sudden and sharp changes in the child’s home where actual camera are focussing on them when they’re distraught and upset

Sun sea and suspicious parents. Mum and dad spying on their adult children from a rooftop in Greece whilst said child gets off with a stranger. CREEPY!

You think a bloke taking the piss out of something that only affects women and that he will never have the first clue about isn't misogynistic?

Why choose that name in the first place?

And you think that's 'deep'?

I’m delusional… but I’m also right?? How does that work?

Finally someone admits gender expression is based on sexist stereotypes.

Do you have data to suggest drag queens are ‘just queer men’? How come if they’re living their best self we see them in night clubs and at Bongo Bingo being Helena Handbasket but then they get changed back into their ‘men’ clothes to go home, they don’t change their names to their misogynistic pseudonym, and we never see them as their ‘authentic selves’ unless they’re getting paid to do so. It’s quite clearly just a job - a job based on appropriating an oppressed class and being offensively grotesque about that class

Do you not agree then that men benefit from male privilege and that damages women? Do you really believe these men never benefited from male privilege because one day they be paid to out on a frock and make vagina jokes?

Are you fucking kidding me?

Theyre taking a female only traumatic experience and turning it into humour.

Ill ask again because you haven’t answered - if it was a ‘funny’ name poking fun at black people, by a white person, would you agree we didn’t need to get sooooooo deep?

Nope, you think you’re right.

yes gender is built on stereotypes, which is why people should be able to dress and express themselves whichever way they choose.
I didn’t say drag queens are just queer men, I said the majority are. Do you have the data that suggests they’re white straight men, as you’ve previously said. I’m sure some see it as ‘just a job’ but for others it’s a lifestyle, as I said before it’s how they express themselves.
yes I do believe there’s a patriarchy, I just don’t agree that drag queens are on the wrong side of it, holding women down. I think they’re a marginalised group, at risk of serious attack.

yes, it’s called comedy. Comedians do it all the time.
i believe I did answer you re black face, and why it’s different to drag queens.

Nope, you think you’re right.

But YOU said I was right 😂

yes gender is built on stereotypes, which is why people should be able to dress and express themselves whichever way they choose.

And here was me thinking we were trying to quash stereotypes not embrace them. I take it you think women = stereotypical ‘girly’ things?

I didn’t say drag queens are just queer men, I said the majority are. Do you have the data that suggests they’re white straight men, as you’ve previously said.

Drag Queen is a job. Men get paid to dress up and mock women. It’s a lifestyle choice but it’s not who they are 100% of the time.

I’m sure some see it as ‘just a job’ but for others it’s a lifestyle, as I said before it’s how they express themselves

So it’s ok to ‘express yourself’ when it’s misogynistic mocking of women? You really think these men’s personalities are constantly making double entendres, that ‘who they are’ is OTT make up wigs and fancy dress?

yes I do believe there’s a patriarchy, I just don’t agree that drag queens are on the wrong side of it, holding women down. I think they’re a marginalised group, at risk of serious attack.

Again - show me any evidence that drag queens are ‘risk of serious attack’

You know who IS at risk of serious attack? Women. By men. No matter what those men’s jobs are. Now THAT is a provable fact and it’s offensive as fuck to suggest that danger is no longer present because a man wears a wig and stockings on a Saturday night and gets paid by the local bingo club to ‘express himself’

Blackface is just comedy. So it’s ok to do blackface right?

If you don’t agree with me - explain why blackface isn’t ok

So you are saying that misogynistic 'humour' is OK then? Because women don't matter? And that if men want to take the piss out of women then they must be allowed to 'express themselves' in that way?

Cool........

This is misogyny in action really isn’t it.

Let’s protect one pressed clas but fuck women, men being paid to prance about in frocks making sexist jokes have far more important feelings than any woman, these men are oppressed and just being themselves, poor lambs. Us pesky deluded women are just spoiling it for the misogynists

When did I say you was right?

No? I don’t think women= girly things. Why would I think men can dress as they like if I thought that.
I think they have a stage persona, as all performers do. But I don’t think they’re back off down the boozer with the lads after joking about all the sexist jokes they made 😂
Erm… literally all of Fox News vilifies queens (and queer people in general) and paints them as predators. I literally mentioned the recent shooting in the USA, I’ll attach a link for you to peruse. www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/crime/colorado-springs-shooting-victims-b2229382.html?amp
Women are at danger from men yes, but that doesn’t negate the danger queens and transgender people face too. They are also a marginalised group.

anyway I have better things to do with my time, I won’t be replying anymore. I hope you take time to speak and listen to queens and gain some education.

You have actually answered any of the points raised about the misogynistic humour of drag queens other than to just say 'it's just comedy innit'.

Although it's probably just as well that you have better things to do, as you are making a complete tit of yourself on this thread.

The result is the same though.

Men dressing up as derogatory stereotypes of women and making misogynistic 'jokes' at the expense of women = offensive to women.

White men dressing up as derogatory stereotypes of black people and making racist 'jokes' at the expense of black people = offensive to black people.

And sexuality does not really come into it: men have always, and will likely always (particularly when supported by women such as yourself), hold a position of power and privilege over women.

I don't know any single female who dresses like a drag queen... So what 'gender identity' are they expressing??

And gender identity just perpetrates sexist stereotypes anyway. Bleurgh.

BREXIT. Voting to make a country poorer, and loss of freedom of movement, that 16 year olds were not allowed to vote in 2016. I remember that day in 2016, it rained a lot on and off and wondered did it put some people off coming out to vote. Lots of closed shops and businesses due to Brexit.

Playboy clothing aimed towards children. Not sure it's still a thing nowadays but was when my daughter was at junior school a few years ago and some of her classmates were buying clothes, pencil cases, hats with the playboy and bunny logo. Who thought that was a great idea!!!

I recently wrote to the BBC regarding Drag Race and how derogatory it was to women. In justifying retaining the programme they said this

”Drag as a cultural phenomenon dates back to Tudor times and has been established as a form of entertainment for many years.”

in 1967, in response to a petition to remove the Black and White Minstrel Show Stephen Murphy, Senior Programme Officer at the BBC’s competitor, ITV wrote, ‘blacking up is a theatrical convention so old that is has lost any derogatory meaning”

it would appear the BBC view blacking up and drag in exactly the same way. Justifiable because it has a history in entertainment! I think that probably tells us all we need to know.

sorry this was in response to Lamb the then director general stating it was perfectly acceptable entertainment

'the vast majority of drag queens are queer men, facing backlash every day for living life how they choose to. Educate yourself on the oppression they face. They don’t just automatically hold power over you because they’re men'

All men benefit from the patriarchal oppression of women, whether they want to or not and whether they are in another oppressed group or not.

I like drag acts I.liked the Black and.White Minstrels I don't like killjoys.

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Fuck me.

Come on now HQ, the racists on this site are getting bold as fuck. You used to at least temper them a little bit.

Yeah even their username is some sort of tribute to an ex senior ukip person.

Same goes with the uniforms, to be honest.
Why set the bar so low? You don't see the boys go to school with skirts up their arses.

Thanks for backing up my point about womanface. At least you’re not a hypocrite who falls over themselves defending one and criticising the other!

Laying aside dubious morals, I suppose at least they’re not being a hypocrite by drawing a false distinction. I guess it’s actually a natural stance of not seeing the humiliating and harmful depiction of one group of people maps over when exactly the same thing is applied to another oppressed group