Be honest: Do you think single and childfree people are less than?

[Sonervousimgonnathrowup]

I am that person.
It suits me.
But fucking hell do I get comments, questions and often it seems like I’m treated like a second-class citizen.

Do people still today look down on single / childfree people?

its so strange when people are like “gosh I wish I had the lie ins, holidays and boozy lunches”

like people work and have families and stuff too? It’s not like you just laze about all day, eating grapes

I suppose people are speaking for themselves though. I have a good job and had an amazing job in London before my first was born, even so I think my dc are pretty beautiful people that are much 'bigger' than any job or lifestyle.

I knew from 10ish years old that I would never want kids.
Dealt with a ridiculous amount of twatty comments of oh you will change your mind one day/when you're older, you don't know true love/happiness.

The when you're older comment always pissed me off, I once snapped back at someone saying they will change their mind about the kids they have when they're older, that went down like a lead balloon. But the twatty oh you're just not old enough and I know you better than yourself, no you don't, not everyone wants the same thing in life and that's fine.

@Goldenbear what does that mean? Do you just mean your children are more important to you than any job you have had or any social life?

No I truly do not care

Since you asked for an honest opinion:
I won't say it to their face or make comments to them, but I do pity single and childless people over 40.
To me it means that something went wrong in their lives. They couldn't build a relationship with anyone, or maybe they are infertile, or something happened (e.g. their partner died).

Well here's my honest opinion. I pity someone who is so narrow minded and unimaginative that they can't even begin to think that someone might have chosen not to have children as a positive choice they made rather than something that was forced on them by circumstance.

No I absolutely do not.
I do judge those who keep having children with different partners when they are not in a stable relationship and not financially able to support their children.
Childless people, no it’s not my business. Neither is it my business if someone is single. I have single friends and understand completely why they stay single.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/conceptionandfertilityrates/bulletins/childbearingforwomenbornindifferentyearsenglandandwales/2020#:~:text=The%20percentage%20of%20women%20who,rather%20than%20not%20having%20children.

According to ONS there been a fairly consistent18 - 20% of women since 1950s who at end of childbearing years ( they take 45 I think) who don't have children.

Of course that could increase with time - but does show it's not a new phenomenon or rare - 1 in 5 women not having children at all and been pretty close to that last 7 decades.

Most of the decline in fertility rates - here it is 1.49 - is due to smaller family sizes and many on here are equally opinionated about only children or more than two children.

I got this a lot when single too. I'd hoped that society had moved on 😕

I agree with this. I didn't have a child until I was 41 and I often felt that I lived outside of society or something like that. Now that I have a child there are plenty of people (other parents) that treat me as equal/ "you know how it is"/ smile on the street in passing. I'm now one of them apparantly.... I'm still the same person....

No I dont think any lifestyles are better / worse.

I think it’s a difficult one because the only people to have experienced having children are those who have had them and once you’ve had them, you’re in the opposite camp. People without kids do not experience both.

example - when people without kids talk about loving their pets like children I just think well yes, I thought that too. But then I had kids and realised it was an entirely different level. Looking after dogs is not the same as looking after a child. But some people without kids will believe it is (I know a few of my friends certainly believe so and I did also equate them at one point).

Ultimately we can’t know if our life choices were right for us until we’re at the end of our lives, what served us at 30/40/50 might not turn out to be the path we should have taken. And that includes people who have kids too because plenty of people regret them (loving your kids but disliking being a parent is very common).

I do think that age is a factor too, people treated me fine when I was in my twenties but childless late thirties I was definately treated differently (by some people, but it adds up to how it feels).

I know, baffling, isn't it? And the boring old trope that if you don't have kids you automatically have loads of disposable income.
Not when you and your DP are both self-employed in the arts! He doesn't even clear minimum wage and I'm not much better off.

I think it’s a difficult one because the only people to have experienced having children are those who have had them and once you’ve had them, you’re in the opposite camp. People without kids do not experience both.

Life before children is not the same as life without children.

I'm not sure if I've ever been on the receiving end of this attitude because my colleagues etc just don't have this information about me. Who is all this judgement coming from? How do they know your child/less status?

@AntsGoMarchingOneByOne

I’ve rarely seen anything quite so patronising and judgemental.

Perhaps you would like to tell us more about your free from failure perfect life where nothing has ever gone wrong?

Of course looking after kids is not the same as looking after pets. But it is still about love and caring for another being and I think that is what people mean about pets.

I don't think if you have children you do know what being childfree is like. Everyone is childfree at some point in their lives. But life changes as you get older whether you have children or not.

The women I know who treat pets like babies are those with grown up kids. They also tend to be the women who most loved being a mother and are replacing a void.

@VladmirsPoutine do your work colleagues really not know if you have kids or not! I find that extraordinary.

But this is the problem with thinking experiences are universal. You have experienced both, but you can only compare with yourself. A different level for you is just that - for you.

It may very well be your friend’s reality that they love their pet in the same way you love your child, but neither one of you will truly know because you’ll never actually experience each other’s emotions.

I have sadly known people who appear to love their dog more than their children.

But if having children is being delayed then it is not particularly unusual to come across child free people in their 30s so It is contextual but as above,the judgement is not really abound! In our circles we found judgement the other way as my DH is 40 and we have a 15 year old, in the Architect world he works in, he has been asked loads about that especially as he is at director level. It is not the 'done' thing. When I became pregnant with my first I was asked by my boss, 'why?' And that was in 2007!

I don't understand why anyone would feel like that.

@antelopevalley - No. I just don't talk about my personal life like that. Although having said that, the ones who do have kids will often say something like over the weekend they took their kids etc to a party, football, whatever which I guess I've never said. And it's sometimes obvious because they've said they're leaving early to pick up their kids so I can see how it comes out.

I work with lots of people and honestly only know three people that I categorically know have DC. There must be more but they don't bring it up.

To be honest I don't have a problem with the 'no love like it' stuff because I think it's probably true (for the most part, there are some tragic exceptions ofc) - if I did have a child I'd probably love them more and in a deeper way than I've ever loved anyone before, because that seems to be how biology works for most people. But on balance, I don't think that would make up for the downsides of having children, for me - one of which would be the constant anxiety of loving someone so fiercely and yet not being able to guarantee that they'd always be safe and have a good life. I don't feel like I'm missing out because, as a PP said, I've never experienced it, so I may as well continue living my comparatively lower stress life.

Where it grates on me is when people phrase it along the lines of 'you don't know real love until you've had a child'. It always makes me think so what, if my partner or best friend or relative dies or something then it doesn't matter because I didn't really love them?

Also, whoever said they assume no child dreams of being completely alone when they grow up, I did! I fully intended to be some kind of forest witch living in the middle of nowhere, performing rituals involving toadstools and talking to birds or something Probably not the most common childhood fantasy but I don't think it's completely unheard of. I don't remember any of my friends at primary school talking about how they wanted to get married and have babies, although we'd play 'house' sometimes because children tend to copy the adults around them.