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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Be honest: Do you think single and childfree people are less than?

528 replies

Sonervousimgonnathrowup · 29/11/2022 10:13

I am that person.
It suits me.
But fucking hell do I get comments, questions and often it seems like I’m treated like a second-class citizen.

Do people still today look down on single / childfree people?

OP posts:
SallyWD · 29/11/2022 14:56

No! No way! Much as I love my DH and family sometimes u really envy single, child free people. Really there are so many ways to be happy in life. Marriage and kids isn't the be all and end all and it isn't for everyone.

AuntieAunt · 29/11/2022 14:56

I think this is really interesting and in a hundred years this mindset (hopefully) will be gone. I do think this mindset currently differs between what social circles you’re in. I’m in my late twenties and nobody in my core friendship groups have started having kids yet (but we’re all skint either trying to get onto the property ladder/just got our first mortgages/still working on careers etc). We’re all getting pressure from grandparents/parents but I think it’s only our singletons in my circle take offence to these comments as I did before I was in a LTR.

My neighbours are in their late 40s without kids. They have a great relationship, lots of holidays/hobbies, really in love with each other, really lovely people and madly in love with their dog. I have wondered if they’re childless by choice or if it was infertility just because I hope they’ve not gone through the pain of infertility as they’re such lovely people.

Why I find this mindset most interesting is because there’s quite a lot of adults who shouldn’t have kids. I know people who hate kids and go on to have kids just because it’s the done thing. While they love their kids (I’ve never heard someone say they don’t love their kids but that’s because that’s pretty socially unacceptable) they don’t particularly like them. I have a lot of respect for adults who are honest enough and have thought about having kids and decide it’s not for them.

I have a family member (I lived with her for quite a few months so I know the behind the scenes) who hates kids, had kids because she didn’t want to miss out/regret not having them so found the first guy who would go along with it and is now a pretty shitty mum just meeting the basic needs of the kids. She had a great life beforehand, top career, loved travelling and very materialistic. She honestly hates spending time with her kids, she’s never baked/cooked/arts and crafts with them, she’s never played a game with them, she only goes on holiday once a year now but never with the kids (she needs a break apparently), she works away quite a few nights of the week and has one day to herself at the weekend to unwind. She hates that the kids are messy (kids can’t colour in the house incase it damages the furniture), she hates that she doesn’t get a moment peace, she hates the company of children, she hates how she doesn’t live her normal life as the kids are expensive. I was pretty shocked when I found out that she was planning on having a baby but everyone said it would be the making of her. Her life beforehand wasn’t selfish, she worked and played hard.

I don’t particularly like dogs, I know a lot of people who love having dogs and understand the pros. I know even if I wanted a dog I don’t have the lifestyle for a dog nor want to give up my lifestyle to be a responsible dog owner. I could possibly hire a dog Walker during the day and I’d probably meet the minimum requirements to require a dog. Overtime I’d probably fall in love with the dog and I know sometimes I’d enjoy walking it. I have a happy life and like my current lifestyle therefore I don’t feel the need to get a dog. But most importantly I don’t want one and I’d probably not be the greatest dog owner in the world as I don’t really like them.

I never judge people who are childfree. I judge people who choose to have kids who wouldn’t even meet the minimum requirements to rescue a dog. Children aren’t therapy tools nor accessories.

Hopefully sooner than later it will become the social norm for people to be childfree. Society would greatly improve for starters. Same for people who are in unhappy relationships just because they think it’s better than being single.

just remember OP, everyone is judged in this world, some for not having kids, some for having too many kids, some for not having careers, some for being young, some for being too old, some for not being financially independent… if you’re happy so should everyone around you.

Crumpleton · 29/11/2022 14:57

Until I read your post it isn't something that I ever think about even when out with child free friends.
It's as much a person's choice to not want to have children as it is a person's choice to have them.

EBearhug · 29/11/2022 14:58

Nobody asks a woman of 50 if she's planning on having children because 'duh!' so it must be whole lot easier around that age.

They don't ask. That doesn't mean it's easier.

Goldenbear · 29/11/2022 14:58

Tbh I think that extreme envy comes across as insincere and patronising, not one position is better than the other so why make out it is.

antelopevalley · 29/11/2022 15:00

@AuntieAunt That is a really good and thoughtful post.

I always eye roll at the idea that having kids makes you automatically less selfish. I have known people for whom that is clearly not the case.

Goldenbear · 29/11/2022 15:05

Why would society 'greatly improve' if we didn't have children, I can't think of anything more depressing than 'youth' becoming a distant memory, tbh that sounds like an extreme opinion. AuntieAunt, strange wish on a parenting website a world without children!

RampantIvy · 29/11/2022 15:06

Less than what?

It says more about those people who make such stupid comments than it does about you.

123ROLO · 29/11/2022 15:09

I used the word jealous before.

However I don't have kids but I'm planning on having children soon. I'm jealous of those who feel content and whose lives are full without children.

If I made a list of pros and cons of to have children or not, the list of cons seem endless. I have a great relationship, hobbies, a great social life, good career, excellent work life balance, and I feel free. I love my life. I just can't shake this niggling desire to have a child, and I'm almost annoyed at myself for feeling that way.

I am jealous of women who can just 'be' and don't need to live for others and don't need to have children to give their life meaning.

Usethesausageasabreakwater · 29/11/2022 15:12

Spottedslug · 29/11/2022 13:54

I'm also single and childless and over 40. People are at best intrigued and at worse shockingly dismissive of me. I'm considered an " other". Fortunately I have a best friend in the same boat so we have our own little alternative family set up.

I don't care what people profess to say on here in terms of acceptability, trust me the majority of people are not as open minded as they like to think.

That’s been my experience unfortunately. I’d like to say it hasn’t but it has.

TedMullins · 29/11/2022 15:21

123ROLO · 29/11/2022 15:09

I used the word jealous before.

However I don't have kids but I'm planning on having children soon. I'm jealous of those who feel content and whose lives are full without children.

If I made a list of pros and cons of to have children or not, the list of cons seem endless. I have a great relationship, hobbies, a great social life, good career, excellent work life balance, and I feel free. I love my life. I just can't shake this niggling desire to have a child, and I'm almost annoyed at myself for feeling that way.

I am jealous of women who can just 'be' and don't need to live for others and don't need to have children to give their life meaning.

What is it you think is missing from your life that children would solve? There's nothing wrong with wanting children of course, but it doesn't sound like you're sure if you do. It's interesting that you mention 'living for others', is that something you feel? That you want to be needed or perceived as a selfless giver? I find your post really interesting as it sounds like you feel one way, but think you 'should' feel another.

psychomath · 29/11/2022 15:22

I don't really understand the comments about envying people without children, unless you had yours by accident or were pressured into it and genuinely regret it. Do you mean that if you could live your life over you'd make a different choice, or just that you look at some aspects of childfree life and think 'that must be nice'? I sometimes see parents playing with their cute kids in the park and fleetingly think that having a six year old looks like fun, but I wouldn't say I envy them - to me that implies I'd rather have their life than mine, and I wouldn't.

psychomath · 29/11/2022 15:24

X-post with 123ROLO, I can understand that POV. I do feel lucky to be at peace with my decision, I know for some women the uncertainty over what they actually want can be very hard.

NightTerrors · 29/11/2022 15:24

No, it wouldn't be my preference but I'm not you. I always knew I wanted children, I have friends who have always known they didn't. We wouldn't want each others lives, that doesn't mean we think we are better than each other just that we have different priorities and want different things out of our lives. I also have friends who are childfree not out of choice, I was there for them when they needed me to be and now I'm happy that they're happy too.

Usethesausageasabreakwater · 29/11/2022 15:28

VladmirsPoutine · 29/11/2022 14:28

I'm not sure if I've ever been on the receiving end of this attitude because my colleagues etc just don't have this information about me. Who is all this judgement coming from? How do they know your child/less status?

Mine ask…. Endlessly!

whumpthereitis · 29/11/2022 15:31

psychomath · 29/11/2022 14:52

To be honest I don't have a problem with the 'no love like it' stuff because I think it's probably true (for the most part, there are some tragic exceptions ofc) - if I did have a child I'd probably love them more and in a deeper way than I've ever loved anyone before, because that seems to be how biology works for most people. But on balance, I don't think that would make up for the downsides of having children, for me - one of which would be the constant anxiety of loving someone so fiercely and yet not being able to guarantee that they'd always be safe and have a good life. I don't feel like I'm missing out because, as a PP said, I've never experienced it, so I may as well continue living my comparatively lower stress life.

Where it grates on me is when people phrase it along the lines of 'you don't know real love until you've had a child'. It always makes me think so what, if my partner or best friend or relative dies or something then it doesn't matter because I didn't really love them?

Also, whoever said they assume no child dreams of being completely alone when they grow up, I did! I fully intended to be some kind of forest witch living in the middle of nowhere, performing rituals involving toadstools and talking to birds or something Grin Probably not the most common childhood fantasy but I don't think it's completely unheard of. I don't remember any of my friends at primary school talking about how they wanted to get married and have babies, although we'd play 'house' sometimes because children tend to copy the adults around them.

The problem is though that we don’t know, and it’s taking an absolutist and universal stance on something that is demonstrably not absolute and universal.

Men walk away from parenthood all the time, so we do accept that not every parent feels the same all encompassing love, but when it comes to women the ones that do openly admit to regretting having children/not loving their children are condemned, or told that the only possible explanation for it is post natal depression.

but yes, assuming it is true, it’s not the same thing as it being something that everyone should desire, or would find enjoyment in.

Chimna · 29/11/2022 15:33

psychomath · 29/11/2022 15:22

I don't really understand the comments about envying people without children, unless you had yours by accident or were pressured into it and genuinely regret it. Do you mean that if you could live your life over you'd make a different choice, or just that you look at some aspects of childfree life and think 'that must be nice'? I sometimes see parents playing with their cute kids in the park and fleetingly think that having a six year old looks like fun, but I wouldn't say I envy them - to me that implies I'd rather have their life than mine, and I wouldn't.

You're right, maybe envious is the wrong word. I miss my old life but my kids were very wanted, and if my had my time again I would have them again. My eldest has additional needs, sleeps very little and can be incredibly hard work. So whilst I wouldn't be without him, I do at times miss the stress free life I had before him. But like PPs have said, it was never a child free life as such as my life was always moving with a view of DC in future.

Rinatinabina · 29/11/2022 15:33

Ah no I often have moments where I wish I was a single child free person. Honestly though I’ve never heard about anyone commenting on anyones circumstances like this. It’s a bit like when people complain that people judge them for being childfree, I have never come across that either.

Spottedslug · 29/11/2022 15:33

Usethesausageasabreakwater · 29/11/2022 15:12

That’s been my experience unfortunately. I’d like to say it hasn’t but it has.

Shit isn't it?!

I've had years of spending entire weekends on my own when I've not been invited to events in case I infect the marrieds with my "otherness" . If like to say it gets better when the kids are grown, but then it goes on to talk of grandkids and the cycle continues .

what worked for me eventually , was to find other childfree mates who I could kick back with and shoot the breeze. No judgement there.

123ROLO · 29/11/2022 15:43

TedMullins · 29/11/2022 15:21

What is it you think is missing from your life that children would solve? There's nothing wrong with wanting children of course, but it doesn't sound like you're sure if you do. It's interesting that you mention 'living for others', is that something you feel? That you want to be needed or perceived as a selfless giver? I find your post really interesting as it sounds like you feel one way, but think you 'should' feel another.

It's hard to articulate.

I don't necessarily think my life is missing anything, there is a small part of me that wants to feel needed to that degree, but I don't think that's the overwhelming feeling.

Me and DH toyed with the idea of being child free, but ultimately we both decided when we think of our future we see children.

Sorry not the best answer! I definitely do want kids, it wasn't a straight forward decision, and it's not a decision I can give a rationale for.

I think to know, and be sure that children are 100% not for you must be quite a freeing and liberating feeling.

Goldenbear · 29/11/2022 15:43

123ROLO, I have dc and neither of us did it 'for others' or to give our lives 'meaning' whatever that means. In all honesty as we were quite young in the professional circles we moved in to have babies, on average that decision was 10+ years down the line for most people we worked with, our decision was based on pure love for each other, we didn't really think it through in an elaborate way, the feelings took over the rationality and I think age would have prohibited us in that sense as we'd have more to think about as at the time we lived in a tiny flat, we had no savings and no pensions, my DH (partner then) was still not a qualified architect so we had to juggle that when DS arrived. Parents are individuals just like Childfree people, we don't join some society that automatically aligns our personalities, outlook and morals once the baby arrives!

Legallypinkish · 29/11/2022 15:48

No definitely not! My sister is 54, never wanted children. She does have a partner of over 30 years but they don’t live together. She has a great life. I’m very envious . She looks amazing too!

antelopevalley · 29/11/2022 15:50

The woman I know who complains about motherhood most says she had kids so she had someone to love her. Motherhood has not workedout how she thought it would.

Gang · 29/11/2022 15:52

Definately.

Ted27 · 29/11/2022 15:53

I don’t like babies, I never felt the urge to carry a baby and give birth. I have a god daughter who I love to bits but I was much happier when she turned 3. Same with my other friends kids. I was always happy to hang out with them but very glad I didnt have to do nappies, teething and potty training.

I did think I would be a great mum though, so I adopted an 8 year old when I was 47. I couldnt imagine doing the whole baby thing - so I didnt.
I remain single, at 57 and with an 18 year old I now get asked if I’m ‘back on the market’