Be honest: Do you think single and childfree people are less than?

[Sonervousimgonnathrowup]

I am that person.
It suits me.
But fucking hell do I get comments, questions and often it seems like I’m treated like a second-class citizen.

Do people still today look down on single / childfree people?

I’m not sure if it counts as “looking down on” or “thinking less of them”, but many posters on here certainly do infantilise people without children. Have a look at threads asking childless / childfree people what they do at weekends and you’ll see for yourself.

Do you think that at least some childfree children have a good hard look at the upsides AND downsides of children before making the decision that's right for them? And that what is an upside for one person is a downside for another?

Wouldn't give it any thought tbh

What I am trying to explain to you in what I meant to be a light-hearted way - sorry, I didn't pull that off - is that parents with young children can be really, thoughtless and selfish. All their energy is going into worrying that one of their children is going to get run over by a car or why their youngest won't eat anything that isn't green. Some people are really good at being parents and also manage to have emotional energy left over for other people - but these people are rare. They probably don't even realise or remember that they said those things. If they're making you this unappy and angry you need to either accept you no longer have anything in common with these people and find new friends.

@YellowTreeHouse

I do know what I’m missing.

Not watching my child struggle to walk, undergo countless surgeries, be bullied relentlessly in school and work, fight tooth and nail for every opportunity, miss out on friendships and a social life because of pain. Not to have a mother that experienced violence from her own mother and isn’t sure whether to gamble that she’ll not be the same.

No, but people with shit for brains are very judgy, I have been asked,
twice, oh are you still on your own??? Having divorced the lunatic many
years ago, yes thank goodness, I chose to be single, it’s fabulous is my
response😀

I think the issue with ‘no love like it’ is that it assumes the experience of said love is a universal experience in parents, and even that emotions can be compared at all.

You can only compare and contrast an emotion with your own experience of either the same emotion or another. No one knows how someone else experiences love, or their emotional depth. We all have an understanding of what people mean when they speak of love, but no one actually knows how someone else experiences it, or whether it could be considered even remotely the same.

Yes, I've heard this attitude from a friend. It's like a tick list they think everyone should be following:
Get married 💒
Have children 👨‍👩‍👧‍👦
Buy own house 🏠
Have 'proper' career 🏢💷

My friend genuinely thinks anybody who doesn't at least have two of these things is immature, shouldn't be able to claim adult status and is a massive failure. If you have all four you are in some way 'winning', I'm not sure what though 😶

For many the choice to remain childfree is largely influenced by circumstances. The past few generations have been significantly poorerer than the last so if the pattern continues what can they expect for their children? It's actually a sensible decision although it shouldn't be the case that if you have a child they'll brow up poorer than you.
Why spend huge efforts, time and money to raise someone whose life I'll be harder than yours? Might as well enjoy your own a bit more instead.

What I am trying to explain to you in what I meant to be a light-hearted way - sorry, I didn't pull that off

Fair enough, apology accepted

FWIW, I agree with what you've said in your post at 12.17.

It depends on the culture. In many cultures, women without children are seen as freaks or to be pitied. I have found that as I have got older, people talk about it less. When I was younger and working in foreign cultures and countries, I got a lot of pity and consternation for having no children, even though I wasn't married and didn't want any. It always came from other women. Men don't care.

Well, I don’t know what it’s like to live as you do and experience life as you do, no. You don’t know what it’s like to live as me and experience life as I do. Does that constitute ‘missing out’ though? Given that we look at each other’s lives and go ‘no thank you, doesn’t appeal’, then no.

We don’t know need to know what we’re ‘missing’, as it would be more like finding out what not dodging bullet feels like.

No - but in IME they aren't exactly a rare being - they've exit everywhere I've lived and worked and usual have normal lives and are a wide ranging group with wildly different background.

Are you in a social group that is mainly paired off - or have large number who have just got together and are luved up - there is that cliche of people in honeymoon phase wanting everyone round them to be a happy and match making like mad or some kind of family pressure ?

People are rude to ask you anything, especially when they don't know your reasoning.

they've existed - that should read - but I agree with DillyDallyDooo - it's rude behavior.

You choose who to associate with.

You need to rethink who you mix with.

haha. Maybe. Although I know this woman and she's been burnt by people with children giving her a hard time for her choices and I am 95% certain she's just trying to ensure that me, or any other person WITH children, doesn't respond with, "you know nothing about how hard christmas is if you don't have kids" or whatever. which she shouldn't have to do. Her stress, her tiredness is no less valid than mind because she's not dealing with children too.

I wish it was your version though!

No. My single and child free friends are the most interesting, flexible and fun people I know. They have had a variety of life experience, always seem to be doing something interesting and rarely have any restrictions or barriers to what they can and will do, which is hugely helpful. I also have the utmost appreciation for my child free colleagues for the way they facilitate those of us with other commitments, providing cover, doing the unsociable shifts, Xmas eve, August and so on. There really is nothing special or admirable about being part of a couple or making a choice to have children, so there is no reason at all to think less of those who don't.

Those questions always flummox me. What do they think people do? Whatever interests them plus housework, gardening, caring for elderly relatives and shopping. Just like everyone else.

I agree with this. I see dads and a few mums who really do not seem to care about their children at all.
I have also seen families where the greatest love seems to be between the adult partners.

No, why on earth would I?

Since you asked for an honest opinion:
I won't say it to their face or make comments to them, but I do pity single and childless people over 40.
To me it means that something went wrong in their lives. They couldn't build a relationship with anyone, or maybe they are infertile, or something happened (e.g. their partner died).

I don't think anyone thinks as a child: "When I grow up, I want to be completely alone!". Everyone wants to have a loving family (unless they grew up in a really shitty family and don't believe in loving families).
I wouldn't call them "less than", but I do feel sorry for them.

Nope!

I'm married and we never want kids and that will never change.

At least ten holidays a year, the freedom to do what we want.

Our friends with kids constantly annoy us... they're always moaning how tired they are, how they never get their free time, no holidays (or child-centric holidays only), and then try to dump their kids on us for some 'them' time, or now with the economy having to cut back because they can't afford it all...

Our lives are awesome!

oh definitely. Im not child free (had my son very young so was mostly the only person with kids for yeeeears)
being single in your 30s is hard (my son is an adult now). It’s constant innocent questions and remarks
eg “what do you do for Christmas ?” Sounds fine written but when it’s said, it’s with a head tilt and a sad look. The question likely comes right after they’re going on about what gift for little tilly. She wants a sword and scrambled eggs but they thought an abacus would be more fun.

or you get “have you tried online dating? My aunt Carole met a lovely divorcee” again sounds fine written but when it’s said it’s like, an instruction or something? You’re supposed to said “oh yes I am. Can’t wait for mr right!! Meeting a lovely banker on Thursday fingers crossed”

and totally relate to the comment about “daytime activities” I’m always tne “shall we have a lunch catch up in march?? God so much on so busy!! Don’t even know my own name hahahaha you know me!! Did you know Tilly can spell her own name!’ She’s only 4!!!”

also totally relate again to people thinking
yoj want to shag their husband or whisk their wife away to vegas to meet hunks. (Yep just said hunks for the first time in my life!)

it’s such a strange situation
didjt notice it in my 20s but my mid-late 30s has been awash with head tilts and metaphorical pats on the head

It's not a question of being "lesser" in any way, but it is true that people make different choices in life. Sometimes we don't have a choice (e.g. infertility). The outcome of our choices (or lack of choice, in some cases) determines our life experiences and responsibilities, and for good or bad that influences the people that we become. But children are by no means the only heavy responsibility a person can have (although they are one of the most relentless) so I have no idea why they are seen by some as a necessity to be "grown-up".