Be honest: Do you think single and childfree people are less than?

[Sonervousimgonnathrowup]

I am that person.
It suits me.
But fucking hell do I get comments, questions and often it seems like I’m treated like a second-class citizen.

Do people still today look down on single / childfree people?

Well you've discounted without reason all of my points. Swap "without a child" for " without a sick elderly parent" in your middle paragraph and you should be able to work it out.

@Spottedslug you lost my attention when you started talking about luxury life. After that I just zoned out tbh. Because that's not what I was saying about single childless people.

But some of these points and not just yours are like a race to the bottom. Well I have 2 kids to pay for and you only have 1 for example, the CMS debates on here can get nasty too.

I think you can't fathom because I don't agree with you and OP that you feel I'm against the childless.

I was late to the marriage and family game and agree that people did have opinions on it- mainly because I wasn’t echoing their life decisions.

To be honest those who kept reinforcing the ‘only way’ were not people I want to be friends with and still don’t.

Right I give up at this point. I'm not inferring that you are against the childfree at all. What is getting lost in translation, is that just because a woman doesn't have a child does not necessarily and as a given ,mean that they have it easier. Our struggles just look different to yours. You have problems with earning more due to childcare etc, whereas I may have a similar problem because I'm caring for a parent . What I do agree on, is that it shouldn't be a race to the bottom. But this judgemental take on how you think the "other half" live won't help that

Ooh I am single and childfree too! I think we attract curiosity, pity by those who are happy in their relationships and with their children, and envy from those who are not.

I just feel alone a lot of the time so it’s lovely to connect with other single childfree women :-)

That argument doesn't work though and it is always used to suggest all sorts of people have caring duties. How about if you are struggling to earn more due to childcare 'and' hours committed to looking after an elderly parent?

Again, I just don't think there is an air of mystery to the childfree, obviously this depends on your context but at early 40's my DH and I know loads of people in that category, my DH has a 39 yearsold colleague that has only just moved out of his parents' home. I mean where we live it is not some sort of curiosity.

Yes you need to give it up. People with kids have parents too. Or do you think it's only the childless that might incur elderly sick parents?

I'm not been goady either.

If this is aimed at me, well I think it's bloody difficult if you are both a parent on top of other caring responsibilitie s, in the same way it's hard going to be childfree with a long term health condition and caring for a sick relative! life can be tough for a lot of people, with or without children .My objection to the pp was her assertion that childfree women had greater earning power without considering any other variables! childfree women are not a homogenous group

@Norriscolesbag

You sound utterly ghastly I suspect many people find you irritating and smug

Definitely not, my sister is 60 and childfree, she has a great life. She's interesting, fun and kind, I adore her.

Yes definitely, society does view women as less worth if they are not mothers or don’t have the potential to be a mother.

The discrimination is everywhere but overt, it can be the look of judgment you get when someone asks if you have children and you say no. It can be nosey and presumptuous follow up questions ‘do you want children?’ ‘When are you going to have children then?’.

It can be the assumption that your spare time is less valuable if you’re not parenting a child, expectation to do overtime at work, work late (while mothers with children can leave early, a woman at my work usually leaves 3 hours before the end of the shift, leaving the rest of the team short staffed at the busiest time due to ‘child care issues’ ). It can be the pressure to work Christmas because you don’t have children (presuming I don’t have children so obviously I don’t want to spend time with my family during Christmas), it can be not being able to take annual leave in the school holiday’s because that’s the time parents should take priority. I can think of many more examples. I’m guessing everyone here saying this doesn’t happen are all mothers and generally have no idea how it feels on the other side of the fence…

Mothers get lots of attention for reproducing, gender reveals, baby showers, celebrations at birth. Showered with gifts at each event. And yes it’s nice to be a part of those celebrations but just don’t forget your childfree friend’s birthday when it comes around (and how generous they were at your celebrations) …

Women who are childfree are definitely treated as less worthy, and are frequently discriminated against in both professional and social situations. I actually think it’s quite a sexist attitude… You don’t see men without children being treated differently or judged for being childfree.

@ExhaustedFlamingo I've known a few woman in their 50s/60s/70s who are childless and they all have a unique selfishness, despite being very lovely people

😮😮. I Cannot just believe what I just read- what an awful / prejudiced / judgemental thing to say 😨. It’s so upsetting that people hold these views. And complete bollox. In my experience having kids (especially when said kids are small) can people incredibly selfish. (I say this as a person with small kids). People can become incredibly entitled and assume that the world revolves around their children. It’s generally a phase and most people get over it.

Also , is it just childless “women” you find so “uniquely selfish”? How misogynistic 🤮

*can make people incredibly selfish.

I don't know if people look down on childless people, but since becoming a parent, I've noticed I'm treated differently by the general public. I never noticed it before, but it does feel a bit like joining a club where you're more accepted.

I don't have kids and am 40 now so at an age where a lot of people do.

I don't feel looked down on but I do think society/advertising/the general way things are set up and spoken about assumes that you are in a family (whatever that looks like) and I do feel a bit "outside" of that.

There is little recognition for how difficult it is financially for a single adult, for example, no help, no rail cards, no representation in the media.

Single women are usually shown as young and hot and having lots of wild dalliances.

no i think they are smart

No, I don't. I have kids but I do recognise that people can live a very happy, fulfilled life without. Dh's friend and colleague is 43, no kids, getting married and is happy. I don't know her well enough to know if she has wanted kids, never found anyone she wanted them with before, or if she has tried and it hasn't happened for her and it's none of my business. She's lovely whenever I meet her, shows a genuine interest in our kids and is an interesting, good person.

My mum is different though. She thinks many women who don't have kids to be 'selfish' the career before family types in her words. I've challenged this view several times and explained that other women are not less than just because they chose to make different choices to her. She always knew she wanted kids but it's OK that other people have always known that they don't. People are entitled to their opinions but we also have a right to challenge them and I frequently do tell her. She doesn't understand because it's alien to her.

I'm single and childfree by choice and have definitely had the pity. I have no idea why as I am the plenty of holidays and social stuff cliche that lots of single and childfree folk don't like either {grin}

My life works great for me. I am always suspicious of all the folk saying 'I envy you' on these threads though. If it was so good, why did you give it up?!

No I wouldn't . Being single and child free is the most stress free way to live . Other than financial constraints you have total ability to live your life as you wish with no compromises

Although I agree, in a family with more than 1 adult child, it is generally the daughter who is childfree who takes on the bulk of the caring. I have seen this time and time again. And those not caring underestimate how much time it actually takes.

'no compromises' 'stress free'
So no one without kids has work/family/friends/illness/general life shit.
Like as if.

Some of us have always known we want kids and others changed their mind at 40 and decided to have kids. Then others just always knew they didn't want them.

There's many reasons it's quite easy for most to get pregnant you hear it all the time "it was just the once" or an accident. You can't send them back once they are here can you?

I envy you!