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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Be honest: Do you think single and childfree people are less than?

528 replies

Sonervousimgonnathrowup · 29/11/2022 10:13

I am that person.
It suits me.
But fucking hell do I get comments, questions and often it seems like I’m treated like a second-class citizen.

Do people still today look down on single / childfree people?

OP posts:
theycallmestacie · 29/11/2022 19:30

Not me. I'm married with dc and really miss my single, child free existence all the time from time to time. It'll be deep rooted envy they're conveying/trying to hide!

XenoBitch · 29/11/2022 19:36

HerMajestysRoyalCoven · 29/11/2022 18:56

YANBU OP but nobody is going to admit to it.

There was a thread a couple of weeks ago where everyone expressed wide eyed astonishment at the idea that anyone could judge childless women, and three other threads running alongside it bashing childless women (one asking for “legitimate reasons” why women wouldn’t have kids and then arguing with those commenting, a second asking what rhe childless planned to do for their lonely old age, and a third about how Jennifer Aniston just didn’t want to be a mum enough).

It happens but nobody will admit to doing it.

Oh gosh, a highlight from one of those threads was the insistence that women only worry about their pelvic floor because they want to please men. Nothing to do with not wanting to feel their uterus trying to escape their body!

KimberleyClark · 29/11/2022 19:58

rudolphrainbownose · 29/11/2022 19:27

Personally, I think many women with children face far more viscous societal judgement than women without children.

I think there is a lot more judgement towards:

  • Teenage/ "young" (under 25) mothers.
  • "Older," mothers, (particularly women who dare to have babies in their 40's, are frequently berated for being too old/ selfish etc).
  • Women with children with different fathers, (attracts particularly viscous judgement).
  • Women who have only children, (particularly women who are open about the fact they had an only child as they only wanted one, as opposed to fertility/ relationship issues).
  • Women who dare to have "larger," families/ more than three children, (judged as so selfish they might as well have personally shot a polar bear).
  • Single mothers.
  • Lesbian/ Gay/ Bisexual mothers, (especially those openly raising children within a same sex relationship).
  • Women who work full time before their children are school age.
  • SAHM's who don't work at least part time when their children reach school age.
  • Women who've made active decisions to be single mothers by choice, (e.g. via donor conception or adopting as a single mother).
  • Poor mothers/ mothers with financial problems, ( Mumsnet in particular will tell them they should have thought about their finances before they had children).

Honestly, I would say mothers often become public property and probably face a lot more scrutiny/ judgement than people without children.

Most of this judgement of mothers is by mothers though?

rudolphrainbownose · 29/11/2022 20:04

KimberleyClark · 29/11/2022 19:58

Most of this judgement of mothers is by mothers though?

Not really. I have heard people, (mainly women), without children criticising women for every single thing on that list.

Clearly there are some nasty, small-minded people who are rude and judgemental to women without children, but honestly, I think a single mother, teenage/ young mother, older mother, mother of an only child or mother of a larger family will have attracted just as much, if not more, criticism and judgement.

HerMajestysRoyalCoven · 29/11/2022 20:20

I’ve seen the “you’ll never know true love” trope but “you’ll never know true poverty” is a new one. Guess all those homeless people should thank their lucky stars they weren’t unlucky enough to be a mum or they’d really be in trouble.

In my experience the ones with money are the parents. No government gives a shiny shit if you’re poor and haven’t any dependants. See the endless “hard working families” nonsense.

HerMajestysRoyalCoven · 29/11/2022 20:22

XenoBitch · 29/11/2022 19:36

Oh gosh, a highlight from one of those threads was the insistence that women only worry about their pelvic floor because they want to please men. Nothing to do with not wanting to feel their uterus trying to escape their body!

Oh gosh yeah, the poster who couldn’t accept that people didn’t want to put their bodies through pregnancy - letting out a little bit of wee 24/7 is sooooo worth it for the babies, amirite ladies?!

Lookout3 · 29/11/2022 21:48

Gang · 29/11/2022 17:08

I agree that lots of people have more money before they have children but finances arent solely based on children.
Children are just one of the factors. Caring responsiblities, financial obligations, careers and health have just as much impact.
It might be true for some people, or not true for others. You cant assume that all childfree people must be rolling in it, just like you cant that all mothers must be poor.

I never assumed, I stat

Norriscolesbag · 29/11/2022 21:52

I do think many seem to think they know much about life- when in reality they don’t really have a clue about anything other than how to suit themselves. Can get quite irritating.

Same with child free men.

There are many exceptions obviously. But it does seem to be a theme.

Lookout3 · 29/11/2022 21:52

Lookout3 · 29/11/2022 21:48

I never assumed, I stat

I stated it is easier. I'm a Mother myself so I know it's not all about money you don't need to point that out to me.

No where did I imply single people were rolling in it. I think it's grass is greener situation.

For the poster saying she had more money... well all I will say is my part time wage is around £800 and my UC is £650 plus CB £80 a month. I mean even if you live a life of poverty it's different with a child. There's so many stresses parenthood may bring.

Lookout3 · 29/11/2022 21:58

Spottedslug · 29/11/2022 18:06

This is such an offensive assumption and is one of the very many judgemental opinions us childfree women are having to correct day in day out, that our lives are somehow easier / better than our counterparts.

I don't have children so therefore I haven't got any other responsibilities and can work as many hours as I wish to top up my overflowing coffers and further enhance my life of luxury? Wow, I wish. No consideration given to those of us with huge caring responsibilities, such as elderly parents exhibiting dementia? No consideration to those with long term health conditions who with all the will in the world can't work overtime or can't even work at all?

it might be useful to look outside of your own situation once in a while

Sorry? I wasn't suggesting the child free people should have kids you know that right? I don't think there's anything wrong with their choice. I see why someone would decide that.

Once in a while 🤣 you don't know me and you can't even get the correct end of the stick for a start!

KimberleyClark · 29/11/2022 21:58

Norriscolesbag · 29/11/2022 21:52

I do think many seem to think they know much about life- when in reality they don’t really have a clue about anything other than how to suit themselves. Can get quite irritating.

Same with child free men.

There are many exceptions obviously. But it does seem to be a theme.

I got told this once by a parent “not having children and thinking you know about life is like living on bread and butter and thinking you know about food”.

Lovely.

XenoBitch · 29/11/2022 21:59

Norriscolesbag · 29/11/2022 21:52

I do think many seem to think they know much about life- when in reality they don’t really have a clue about anything other than how to suit themselves. Can get quite irritating.

Same with child free men.

There are many exceptions obviously. But it does seem to be a theme.

Er, so childfree people have no clue about life?

What are you on?

KimberleyClark · 29/11/2022 22:01

And actually I know a lot about supporting a partner with cancer and about caring for an elderly parent with dementia. So yes I know about life.

HintofVintagePink · 29/11/2022 22:04

I don’t think they are ‘less than’. I envy their freedom and cash!

I do sometimes have to bite my tongue when they moan about tiredness due to socialising though!

AttilasHuns · 29/11/2022 22:05

OP what ever you say just do not mention you don’t like children and you’ll be fine, otherwise you’ll be put in the same box as racists.

A similar thread was posted not too long ago and a poster said that people who don’t like kids are prejudiced and discriminatory and were likened to racists! 🤦‍♀️

XenoBitch · 29/11/2022 22:06

HintofVintagePink · 29/11/2022 22:04

I don’t think they are ‘less than’. I envy their freedom and cash!

I do sometimes have to bite my tongue when they moan about tiredness due to socialising though!

Not all childfree people have freedom and cash. Some have caring responsibilities for parents etc
I have no kids and no cash (am on UC). No kids does not mean a glittering career.
I get tired due to my health condition. Is that allowed?

Spottedslug · 29/11/2022 22:09

Lookout3 · 29/11/2022 21:58

Sorry? I wasn't suggesting the child free people should have kids you know that right? I don't think there's anything wrong with their choice. I see why someone would decide that.

Once in a while 🤣 you don't know me and you can't even get the correct end of the stick for a start!

You were implying that your life was easier in terms of income generation pre child,which I countered with alternative caring/health scenarios that also affect income levels for childless women. As a parent you don't hold the exclusivity card for struggling financially

Goldenbear · 29/11/2022 22:13

Xenobitch and what makes you think parents don't have elderly parents to look after or long term health conditions?

XenoBitch · 29/11/2022 22:16

Goldenbear · 29/11/2022 22:13

Xenobitch and what makes you think parents don't have elderly parents to look after or long term health conditions?

Of course they do. I never said they don't.
The inference on this thread is that if you don't have kids, you have an awesome life full of holidays and lots of cash. It is not true!

HintofVintagePink · 29/11/2022 22:16

XenoBitch · 29/11/2022 22:06

Not all childfree people have freedom and cash. Some have caring responsibilities for parents etc
I have no kids and no cash (am on UC). No kids does not mean a glittering career.
I get tired due to my health condition. Is that allowed?

My post was about socialising. Stop looking to be offended

XenoBitch · 29/11/2022 22:18

HintofVintagePink · 29/11/2022 22:16

My post was about socialising. Stop looking to be offended

Being childfree does not mean you have lots of time to be social too.

HintofVintagePink · 29/11/2022 22:19

XenoBitch · 29/11/2022 22:18

Being childfree does not mean you have lots of time to be social too.

Where did I say it did?!

You are intent on finding fault with everyone who doesn’t agree with you; even if you have to make things up

Lookout3 · 29/11/2022 22:19

Spottedslug · 29/11/2022 22:09

You were implying that your life was easier in terms of income generation pre child,which I countered with alternative caring/health scenarios that also affect income levels for childless women. As a parent you don't hold the exclusivity card for struggling financially

You have a serious chip on your shoulder. Personally as a Mother I miss my child free life tbh! Always felt that way too.

Your your too right I was implying that generating extra income without a child IS easier. That's not be throwing shade at childless people though.

Two separate things all together. People ha e ill children and work with ill children too what's your point?? Looking after 1 person is easier than 2 I'm not debating because you can't get that chip off your shoulder.

Your on your own

mogsrus · 29/11/2022 22:20

Our Dd has a wonderful partner neither want children, stock answer is I would never want a child of ours to pick up the mess you lot have left. I agree, pith more don’t think like that

BadLad · 29/11/2022 22:30

Plenty of posters on here judge child-free people who dare to have a house with a spare bedroom. They’re called selfish, grabby, entitled and all the usual barbs trotted out on here, on the grounds that they’re taking up a house that could be used by a family WITH CHILDREN, so they should move to a miserable hovel or sad bedsit.

There are still a few on here who think that the childless should never be considered anywhere above last for working Christmas Day shifts, but thankfully they seem to be fewer and fewer.

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