Be honest: Do you think single and childfree people are less than?

[Sonervousimgonnathrowup]

I am that person.
It suits me.
But fucking hell do I get comments, questions and often it seems like I’m treated like a second-class citizen.

Do people still today look down on single / childfree people?

Oops cut off to soon. I meant to say i definitely see this attitude all around me. For example, this year both my own parents and my in laws have informed us that we are getting less presents than usual/ no presents because they want to "focus on the kids". Ive no objection to not getting a present, but its but the budget is definately there its just been spent on grandkids now

To live for others i was referring to the children you have, not socity.

It wouldn't have been clear but in my first post I discussed comments I see from women who make comments like "my life didn't begin till I had children". There are definitely people out there who see their role, identity and sole purpose as being a mother. And I guess that is a spectrum, all women have to attribute some of their identity and purpose to be being a mother when children come along, just some do it more than others. Therefore to feel 'whole' and that you are complete without children is quite remarkable (I think). It shows contentment.

Be honest: Do you think single and childfree people are less than?

Not remotely. I'm baffled that anyone would tbh. I'd have assumed that people ask questions about it because they are curious, rather than that they are judgmental.

Theres also many examples of things like people patronisingly telling you how much they envy your life. It always comes with a patronising undertone that your life must be soooo easy compare to theirs, that you couldnt possibly have as busy (by this they tend to mean "full" and imply that your life is empty), or that you couldnt have problems. Theres also themes around peoples children always coming as a priority so people will get more annual leave priority (or at least feel they should) etc. My mother for example missed my graduation because my nephew had a school play. I understand her role of grandma, but peoples excitement over that or roles as aunts etc have also reduced how much they want to fufill a mum role to me, or sister. They would always rather visit a grandchild than me, our mil was 2 hours late to our house (that she was visiting for the first time, hadnt seen us in 6 weeks) because she popped into see grandchild who she sees weekly. Things like that are very common. Another controversial thing is that people talk about children 24/7 and show little interest in anything else. If i go out to meet with friends, then of course they want to talk about them. I view it a bit like if your group of friends were mostly teachers, and you are a plumber. Of course your friends should talk about teaching, and their jobs and you should chip in// be interested in it. However its abit rude if they never ask about your job, or if they switch off every time you talk about plumming/ or tell you "i wish i could be a plumber, being a teacher is so hard" then talk about teaching the whole time. Its excluding and people just dont see it.

No, I don’t think you’re “less than”. I envy you your freer time and disposable income! Though I appreciate it must be incredibly painful if you’re child free and not by choice.

It’s not better or worse, it’s just different. I think there are biological things that affect you more if you’ve given birth, and there’s a stage of change you obviously go through if you’re a mother, but neither is better as situations go than the other.

If people are making unpleasant comments to you then I’d be taking them off your Christmas card list!

And here people go again with the assumptions about how much disposable income people without kids must have. It's HUGELY offensive.

Here here!

especially if you're also single and therefore, have no significant other to share the bills with

Agreed, Single people or couples on minimum wage are very poor and usually not entitled to any benefits.

The you must have so much free time, space, money etc allways makes me feel like they think im rattling around in my house, frittering time and money away because i have nothing meaningful to spend it on. It always has a bit of an an implication that your life is empty somehow, and less full.

I think having your whole identity around motherhood is unhealthy.

I don’t consider that 12 miscarriages makes me lucky, do you?

Amen to this. Women who have kids were not born with them attached Christ!

We was once free too. I think is probably your own issue OP. People comment on everything it's life. Like when you have one baby people will ask when are you having not (assuming that's what you would like)

Your having a bloody laugh with this right? Be grateful because having your child to the wring person can have your life in serious tatters. There's a lot of single mums today, they are left to do it all alone and work a job around school hours and juggle school hols.

I think your post is odd. I just want to say I just have the 1 DC and I love him all the world. But I work part time because of DS and there's times when I've nearly had to give it all up due to lack of childcare and stress.

Before I had him I could work overtime whoever I wanted it was a dream!!

Have you tried just not telling people that you don't want to have children? I think women tell people this because they think it will put people off asking questions. Looking at this thread - boy does that backfire!
a) it's not anybody's business except the person you're in a relationship with b) it can come across as a bit negative and dogmatic. If people ask you the baby question you can just go vague 'maybe one day', 'not really the right time' - most people will be put off by this. There are lots of reasons for a couple not to have a baby - including money and infertility issues, so most people have the common sense not to keep pestering. When I think about it, some of my single friends have even said to me something along the lines of 'I like children, but it's probably a good thing I don't have my own - I wouldn't like being in the house on my own - I like to be able to give them back and have the evening to myself'. I don't know whether they wanted children and have come to terms with ir, or never wanted children in the first place, but it just comes across a whole lot better than 'I've made the "lifestyle" choice to not have children', which tbh does make you sound like a bit of a baby hater.

Peoples experience of not having children changes through each age though. People will often talk about their life before children, and how they had more time, more energy and used to do boozy lunches/ go out clubbing whistfully saying thats what they would be doing if they were childless. They often neglect to mention that they were just 21 at the time, and think that's what my life is like so of course how i feel as a childless 40 year old is going to be different to how they did.
Its like assuming that as an 18 year old female that the way society treats you as a woman wont change as you age, look different, in different jobs etc.

How i feel, how im treated by those around me has changed as i go through different life changes. It was different when it was only a few of my peers who had children, then changed again when it became a majority, then when every other adult member of my family had children, then when I was suddenly in the age group when I was in the older female category. The gulf has widened at times, and then made smaller at others

Im doing some interesting reading now on how childless older adults are treated eg within dementia services. My older friends have discussed how life changes again when your friends all become grandparents

If you have children at 30, then its likely you wont have experienced what i have

Not really sure what you're talking about, TBH.
Two different groups of people can both have money issues at the same time. Me saying some people without kids don't necessarily have lavish income and lifestyles, which many seem to assume, doesn't mean I don't think someone on their own working PT is also lacking a lavish income and lifestyle.

@DameHelena absolutely but the difference is as a single person you can work as many hours as you want and work multiple jobs. It's much easier to do whilst child free. But true if your child free you won't know the struggle so 🤷

Its as offensive as if on mentioning that you had children, i assumed that you had no money with no idea of their external circumstances. Its patronising. If everytime someone said they had kids, I told them it must be really awful to have no money, that they must really struggle each month and be finding it hard to make ends meat. I bet they wished they had more money for hobbies and were able to work more overtime?

People have different money circumstances, theres all sorts of reasons why someone couldnt do overtime. Mum doestnt equal poor, any more than Childfree doesnt equal rich.

I have a dd but I have noticed something similar with my own parents and some other family members. They only seem to be interested in my dd. My parents could not give two shits about me now. They were always very selfish and not very good parents but after I had her, they don’t ask how I am or what’s going on with me. Don’t notice anything about me or say anything nice to me. They lavish all their attention on my dd. They buy loads of presents for her all the time, don’t bother to get me anything for Xmas oh they got something for dd instead.
Sounds petty but my point is, some people just seem to prefer investing in relationships with kids, probably because it’s so much easier and so much more rewarding.
Adult relationships are hard, they go two ways. Kids are straightforward, and you can just buy them stuff and “watch their face light up “.
My parents are the same with my two sisters (who don’t have any dc), couldn’t care less now they have a gc. I feel sorry for my sisters because I can see it hurts them but I don’t think they realise, it’s hurtful to me too.

@Gang Are childless/free older adults treated worse in health services? You mention dementia services. Is this because they don't have anyone advocating for them rather than a child per se? That sounds all very interesting and being honest not something I've ever really thought too much about.

I’m sure many child free people have had money issues so do understand “struggle”

having kids doesn’t give you a monopoly over money worries

Pretty sure it’s not competitive misery olympics, and just because someone’s struggles and responsibilities aren’t the same as yours doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

No, exactly, it’s not supposed to be a competition.
And can single people all just 'work as many hours as you want and work multiple jobs'? What if you have health issues or responsibilities or other restrictions that mean you can't?

You do know there are other caring responsibilities?
My Aunt cared for her disabled and then dying mother for a number of years. She could not work at all.

I have noticed this myself with some people. Which is one of the reasons I reject the idea that parents' love for their children is always all-encompassing.
Some parents are good when their kids are small, other are better when their kids are adults. And some are never good parents.