To feel embarrassed and ashamed at children’s parties

[Spidermanversuselsa]

Dd had a friends birthday party last week, for the last 5/6 months or so I’ve dreaded taking her. I have to watch her v closely the whole time and step in for her behaviour a lot. She was never like that before and had no issues.
She was getting so angry during the game it pass the parcel, screaming at a boy to carry on passing it round, then had a screaming and shouting meltdown when she didn’t win the main prize at the end, I had to carry her to the toilets to calm her down, with her screaming & shouting & biting my shoulder. Next she was getting upset as a boy was pushing her, it was his fault but she got so upset and angry and couldn’t calm down. I generally end up leaving early these days and crying on the way home. It’s a big friendship group and some of the kids have grown up together, so I end up missing out on spending time with the mums etc, I can never relax.
I feel everyone must be thinking how rude and out of control my Dd is. She’s a bright, lovely girl and can have periods of being lovely and back to herself, is this just a phase or something more?
I feel like we just can’t go anymore

It’s probably a very frustrating phase.
my dd was an adorable dream at 2, and then by 4 was a total dick for a while.

i think this is completely normal. Just turned 4 is still very young. This kind of behaviour isn’t unusual at big events at this age. Parties will still be new to her.

if I was at that party, and saw your daughter kicking off, I’d just shrug it off as one of those things. I’d also be relieved it wasn’t mine!

I’m going to disagree with the ‘come down hard’ and ‘discipline’ comments. Remove her, yes, but not as punishment, remove her both so others can continue the game uninterrupted and so that she can calm down, reduce overwhelm and regulate. I would have neurodivergence at the back of my mind but either way you say she is not in control, she needs help to self regulate and will only learn this by co-regulation, you staying calm and giving her time and space to come out of it. This is a really tall order sometimes.

IF she is ND, a meltdown is a neurological event due to overwhelm, not behavioural, which doesn’t mean it can’t improve but that in the moment she can’t reason or hear you.

when a meltdown happens, it’s too late, and spotting the signs, keeping sensory input and overall demands lower so that it doesn’t get to that point will be key.

Does she want to go to the parties, does she enjoy them? If not, give it a miss? If so, find quiet places she can be when overwhelmed, consider ear defenders, take small steps rather than expecting her to cope with a full game etc. she can sit the games out etc.

Have you posted about your daughter before, @Spidermanversuselsa? If you have, you're essentially asking the same question here - namely "is my DD neurotypical or not?"

Nobody on here can answer that question. If you are concerned, you need to set the ball rolling via pre-school and GP. This is the only way you will start to get some answers, though it's a very long process and it's very difficult to diagnose 'syndromes' in children of this age unless they are so obvious that there's no doubt at all. On the whole, it's easier to rule additional needs in or out once they get to an age where most children have 'grown out of' particular behaviours.

What you describe might be 'normal' and might not. I know I'll be flamed for this, but I suspect your DD being an only child might also play a role, in that she's not used to having to play second fiddle to another child, ever. That may be why this behaviour coincides with her starting pre-school. If you are the poster I'm thinking of, she also gets to share your bed for part of the time, so has exactly what she wants even during the night as well as all day (I was a SAHM and that was one reason I absolutely did not to see my children during the night unless they were ill). She's also had some formative years spent in lockdown (which is a yet another reason why it was such a fucking stupid policy), so has missed out on the kind of normal interaction with other children which she would have had via mother and baby groups, coffee mornings, the park etc.

I would agree that 4 years old can be a difficult time. My 2nd DC was a dream until 4 and then we had some challenging times.

He is very competitive now at 7, but is better at hiding his disappointment. He does a lot of sport so it is seen as a plus. I'm not sure if he is or isn't ND (his older brother has ASD).

Just as an aside, girls are really good at hiding ASD traits and the good behaviour at school vs explosion in home circumstances is a known ASD thing. Not that I am diagnosing from afar, just so you are aware. I do think this is a relatively normal thing. Covid probably hasn't helped either.

Hugs to you Op. Your DD's behaviour probably isn't as bad as you think it is, you are just more on edge x

I wonder if she’s copying behaviour she’s experiencing at preschool?
so like when say she has a toy and another comes along and takes it from her and rather than remain passive, she’s seen that if she creates a fuss, they’ll give it back?

We had a DC like this. They were just overstimulated by parties. Just decline invites. Send a card and a gift and blame a clash of dates. Once they reached about 9 and the parties became smaller, we opted back in again and they were fine.

This is what I was like when young at social gatherings and over stimulated and I’ve got adhd. I’m not suggesting she has but look up adhd in girls.

OP I wonder if she might be struggling with ASD or her mental health - this is often how OCD or anxiety can present in childhood. If it continues into older primary it might be worth looking into. I work with children who have MH problems. Could be sensory overload or lack of control at parties is causing her to get upset.

My friend's daughter did the same after she started school (albeit a bit later on I think so no signs for a few years before). Turned out she had dyslexia (or something related to this sort of learning difficulty) which meant she would come home from school and scream in frustration for 20 mins and get in really bad moods.
Not what you want to hear but it's as much a process of elimination of what it could be as much as anything else?

Hopefully it's just a phase she's going through of course! I used to be a very bad loser as well and would lose my rag (apparently). So it does happen....

It may be that this is because the children who find such situations overwhelming don't go to parties, so the ones you see there are the ones who find it easy.

You say your daughter enjoys parties, but if you look at the overall picture, is it worth it? Every time she goes to one, she gets stressed out. I would just not take her to these things, not put her in environments which are going to cause problems for her. That doesn't reflect badly on her or on you.

She may (or may not) be more comfortable at big parties when she's older. Some adults prefer to avoid big busy loud parties.

You've seen a pattern with preschool and parties causing your daughter to feel overwhelmed. If you want or need her to go to preschool and can't reduce her hours there, then the problems it causes may be unavoidable. But parties are definitely optional! Why stoke the fire, when preschool is already proving so challenging for her?

The behaviour isn't the main problem. The behaviour is a window into her feelings. It's a way for her to show that this is all too much for her.

Nest time she is invited to a party ask the host mum beforehand if there can be a time out space for your daughter if she starts to kick off. Immediately the tantrum starts whisk her into that space until she calms down. Should only take about 5 minute at that age. Once she has calmed down return her to the party and don't say another word about the tantrum. Repeat if necessary.

Next

My DD was like this, everyone said she was just strong willed and would grow out of it. She's now 7 and being assessed for ASD with some very obvious sensory issues. Oddly she actually seems to be ok at parties now.

Not sure if someone has already said, but mine was like this at a party. Not so bad with pass the parcel, but couldn't socialise in the big group, struggled with the noise etc. Turns out he has sensory issues. I feel awful for taking him now!

Do you think there might be more to it ? Like my child is being assessed for Aspergers ( autism really as I don’t think the term is used although doctors are still using it ) . She was great until she went to pre school and I then some behaviours started showing . Parties can be overwhelming for her . It was nit easy to see as she is extremely intelligent reading aged 3 , really advanced academically etc .

I think it might be a phase because although my just turned 4 year old is fine at party games, she has suddenly become horrendously competitive at board games (the orchard toys ones, snakes and ladders etc) and gets very upset if she isn’t winning. She never used to be like this at all! If I get a wildcard in animal families my heart. Sinks because I know what is coming…. I’m trying to model good sportsmanship, laughing when I go down a snake etc, and she is getting a bit better.

My DD was exactly as you describe in your OP - in fact that exact incident happened at more than one party, even at her own party once. We had to remove her from her own party! She was about 7 then. She was a biter as well, we had to set up nursery/home reward charts to try to nip it in the bud, just so embarrassing and upsetting at the time, I felt awful. However, she did gradually grow out of it. It's been a very gradual thing, the biting stopped at about 5 years old. The wanting to win thing stopped at maybe 8 years old? There was definitely a significant improvement in her behaviour when she started school, although she did attend anger management sessions in year 1 (to give her class teacher a break as much as anything). She went to the local bog standard primary school, but the school dealt with her perfectly. And we did have to be very strict with her at home, we couldn't cave in to any of her demands, ever.

Fast forward to now, she's 17, and is the loveliest, kindest, generous, sweetest person you could ever meet. She helps around the house, does all the ironing. She's extremely bright, predicted to get all A stars in her A-levels, her favourite thing is studying, but she also has a boyfriend and some good friends. She's a trained coach in her sport, and is brilliant with the younger kids (4-5 year olds). She is completely NT.

Honestly, OP, it might be a nightmare now, but it does get better!

@Spidermanversuselsa it sounds like you're doing an amazing job and I think you handled the situation well.

A few other posters have mentioned possible neurodivergency, which may or may not be the case, but something to bear in mind is that tactics that work with ND children almost always benefit neurotypical children, too. Especially at this young age when they're less able to self regulate. It's worth looking into some resources.

Also, ignore the ridiculously critical poster on here, who is being a complete arsehole!

Your daughter is now of an age where she is being more exposed to situations of potential sensory and emotional overload. This could make potential ND more salient than previously.

One of the things I've observed (with hindsight) from my own ND, and being a mother and grandmother of ND children, is the frequent mismatch between chronological age and typical emotional development. This is something you might want to be aware of.

At four yrs for example, their ability to emotionally regulate responses, was lagging around 18months behind NT peers. At 7-9 years, more like two years behind. Adolescence is a particular challenge, as their self-awareness of difference really kicks in and can show up in behaviour.

As an adult who is now a pensioner, I'd say I've consistently felt about 10 years or so behind my peers in where I am until plateauing out around 40-50. At 30 my maturity (emotionally) was more like a 20yr old for e.g.

She’s 4 and just started part time pre school in September, the huge anger etc started a few weeks after.

I think this is your biggest clue, OP.

The reason the teacher sees nothing is because your daughter's masking. Teachers can be particularly unaware of a child that masks.

Google masking and google the coke bottle effect.

The effort of masking her total overwhelm while she's there is using all of her energy reserves and she needs downtime afterwards to decompress. She's not getting that and accordingly, because home is her safe space, you are seeing her explosive behaviour when she can't hide the overwhelm any longer.

If you can keep a log of exactly when she melts down and what the trigger for that was, then you stand a chance of being able to avert any others by pre-empting her behaviour and stepping in with calming strategies, but it's not an easy or quick solution.

Parties are generally a nightmare for kids these days, I don't know why parents end up inviting so many kids, music mega loud and hyper atmospheres.

I think in your shoes I'd probably avoid parties for a while and then reintroduce back to them again.

If her behavior seems markedly different to other chilfren it might be neurodiversity. My own daughter is on thr autistic spectrum and it began to show itself in more cmplex social situations at this age. Its sensory overwhelm

However as a parent of two i have been to a lot of kids parties and seen a lot of kids cry over pass the parcel !

Sounds similar to my son with Autism. His behaviours got worse when he started preschool because the massive change of routine and learning new rules. And parties are a whole other set of rules to learn. I think it's always worth referring. You can just check it off and know its not that, or you can get early intervention if necessary.

Is she absorbing your anxiety?

Taking it upon herself to enforce the rules of pass the parcel is a sign of not trusting that the grown ups are in charge. She may feel secure and relaxed in the preschool setting because the teacher has her act together.