To be glad that the Down Syndrome abortion appeal was defeated

[Fififafa]

A woman with DS has twice tried and failed to get the courts to outlaw abortion beyond 24 weeks for foetuses with DS. Under current legislation for England, Wales and Scotland, there is a 24-week time limit for abortion, unless "there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped", which includes Down's syndrome.
I read that she has is being supported by some religious group.

I’m glad that the appeal was lost. This is a personal decision that every woman has the choice and the right to make. What Heidi Crowter et al are doing, is fighting to remove that choice from women. AIBU?

@pointythings No I am saying to those on the thread who say that abortion should be available for any reason should equally recognise that others may not understand the reasons given for said abortion.

I also made the point for those that saying that people shouldn't view a late abotion as a "change of mind" that it is down to a change of mind, whether or not circumstance contributed to that change of mind, and that they should just own it.

I think that Tansy is bitter, too, and that also can cause miscarriage. Not sure if that grows in the ME though. I'm not much of a gardener.

@Trianglesquarerectangle well ultimately a woman's reasons for having an abortion are nobody's business but her own. So I would just advise people to keep their beak out and put their judgement where the sun don't shine.

The data makes it clear that late abortions are done for medical reasons, so there's no 'owning it'. It comes under the heading of 'shit happens'. You appear to believe that women have late abortions just because. The evidence does not support this.

@Emotionalsupportviper @SnotRag22 Numbers 5:11 - It says she will have a swelling of the womb and her thigh will fall away, so no, not about abortion. Just some random ritual of the old law to curse someone if they'd commited adultery. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Numbers%205%3A11-31&version=ESV

Exodus 21:22 I can't tell what's going on there but the blokes are fined, so it's not seen as a good thing www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus%2021&version=ESV

Genesis 2:7 isn't talking about the creation of the average person, it's about how God created Adam. And it's God that does the breathing into him that starts his life, not Adam.

@Emotionalsupportviper looking at where hyssop grows naturally, it is likely that it would have been available in the Middle East.

Its use is dangerous, of course. Thank goodness for safe medical abortions.

Absolutely. And thank you to you too. I have the opportunity to train as an ALM next year. I don't know that I'm in right place currently but if not next year then definitely the year after. I'll keep you in my prayers ❤️

@pointythings at no point did I say that but you do you

Mine wasn't down to a change of mind. My decision was reached after getting all the facts. I didn't think "I'll go ahead with the pregnancy" when I was told at 20 weeks something was wrong and then change my mind at 26 weeks. Those 6 weeks were spent with neo-natal consultants and various other people to help me understand what going through with the pregnancy and birth would mean.

Oh - sorry. I wasn't clear - yes, hyssop grows int he ME, it was tansy I was wondering about.

Genesis 2:7 isn't talking about the creation of the average person, it's about how God created Adam. And it's God that does the breathing into him that starts his life, not Adam.

God breathes life into every one of us @OldFan . And our every breath is an expression of God - our first gasping intake of breath ("Yah") draws God's life force into our body; the last breath we release ("Weh") releases that force back to God.

Together they speak God's Holy Name ("Yahweh"). You can believe it or not, obviously. I think it's one of the most beautiful things ever. (But then, I would, wouldn't I? 😉_

Oh - you will LOVE it Snotty! I wish I could do it again so that I could take all of the modules I had to miss (some were compulsory eg OT studies) others we had to choose between two or three modules, so when I chose Ethics, I missed out on summat else (can't remember now what it was - Liturgy, possibly).

I'll hold you in my prayers, too.

You're never going to agree with me. You think I'm a murderer. I said previously in here that it took a long time for me not to think of myself as a murderer. And to not feel abandoned by God.

I choose to believe that God was with me, and I have been upheld by my church community during the most harrowing and traumatic time of my life.

I'll pray for you too.

Thank goodness for safe medical abortions.

You are so right @pointythings.

Stopping abortion doesn't stop abortion.

It stops SAFE abortion.

Desperate woman will take risks, and those risks will often have dreadful outcomes. We don''t ever want to go back to those awful days.

Why does god kill people then? Seems to me he's pretty happy for it to happen when it suits him

@OldFan the God thing needs to be kept out of abortion law (and all law) in any case. Laws should be secular. I do not want the religious to impose laws grounded in their beliefs on me as an atheist. Keep your rosaries off my ovaries, as they used to say.

Absolutely!! For want of a better word, preach!

Religion should never come into laws.

A) I don't know - I cannot read the end of God. None of us can

B) We are de-railing this thread and turning it into a theological debate which is unfair on the OP

A new thread should be started if you want to discuss these matters - but I can't promise to be on it, because (A) ⬆

Agree

How has this been derailed into bible class?

How arrogant do you have to be to think that the rules of your special book should apply to people who aren't in the special book club.

If people want to live their lives based on the writings of goat herders from the middle east a billion years ago then go ahead, but what the fuck are you thinking trying to suggest that I or anyone else should care about their opinions on my uterus and the contents thereof? Unbelievable.

A) I don't know - I cannot read the end of God. None of us can

So then no one should be quoting the bible saying god tells us not to kill. Thats my point. Its hypocritical to use what is said in the bible when even god himself does not adhere to it. Which is why religion has absolutely no place in laws (which I know you agree on, I mean the posters who use it as a reason why abortion should be banned)

My fault - I asked a question. Next time I'll PM.

I've apologised upthread and tried to move it back on topic.

I agree op im sorry she feels this way but the way some religious groups have jumped on this to help her case makes me sick

everyone has their reasons not to carry on to term and thats the way it shold stay

‘Thou shalt not kill’, says god, who then, like a twelve year old who has just discovered Grand Theft Auto, proceeds to go on a murder rampage across two testaments AND the side quests.

Asking the Abrahamic god to determine the value of life is like going to Henry VIII for marital advice. There’s probably better options out there.

“Going to court” oh you mean risk 20+ years in prison? Very easy for you sat behind a keyboard. It’s the Laws that are the problem.

It has nothing to do with religion it’s just largely insecure losers desperate to control women. It’s also in the Bible that eating shellfish is a sin but they ignore that conveniently.