To be glad that the Down Syndrome abortion appeal was defeated

[Fififafa]

A woman with DS has twice tried and failed to get the courts to outlaw abortion beyond 24 weeks for foetuses with DS. Under current legislation for England, Wales and Scotland, there is a 24-week time limit for abortion, unless "there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped", which includes Down's syndrome.
I read that she has is being supported by some religious group.

I’m glad that the appeal was lost. This is a personal decision that every woman has the choice and the right to make. What Heidi Crowter et al are doing, is fighting to remove that choice from women. AIBU?

24 weeks is more than enough bloody time to realise you don't want a baby imo.

Think its disgraceful you can abort at all past 16 weeks but there you go.

I agree with you. Although I would argue the other way - that all abortion should be on demand as a fundamental right of women (so the Downs issue would then become irrelevant anyway in that context).

Women who abort at 24 weeks are not just deciding they don't want children ffs. They've carried their child for 6 months. The vast majority of women in that situation do so after terrible news. Educate yourself while the rest of us are glad people like you don't get to make decisions for the rest of us.

I agree with the OP 100%.

Well seen as many life changing disorders aren't picked up until the 20 week scan and then there needs to be fine for more detailed scans and time to process the deck on 24 weeks stands to be right, speaking from someone will personal experience. Most chromosomal disorders/physical development problems like heart problems etc aren't identifiable at 12 weeks.

YANBU. How arrogant of people to want to restrict women’s heartbreaking choices because they feel indulgently ‘uncomfortable’ with them (but of course, wouldn’t have the responsibility of potentially bringing up a child with significant needs themselves). As early as possible, as late as necessary.

Totally agree

I hate these personalised crusades, using people who are personally affected as some sort of bludgeon. ‘You want to kill me’ . No, we don’t. We think that families have a right to choose whether or not they think they can give a good life to some one who may be very much more seriously disabled than this lady.

I lived next door to a family with a very very seriously disabled Down’s syndrome child. The lives of the other children were horrendously affected. They have rights, too.

Definitely not unreasonable. Very pleased about this decision. VERY!

@WWimpoleHat so it'd be OK to abort at 38 weeks just due to changing your mind?? I'd worry that a rule like that would disproportionately effect mothers with antenatal depression etc

I think the laws should stay as they are.

YANBU, the charities behind Heidi are also against early prenatal testing...aka early detection of T21 and termination. I wish they would just say with their chests they're pro life instead of hiding behind this 'oh we just hate full term babies being killed' troupe.

I also want to point out most of the parents supporting this campaign who have children with DS did NOT make the choice to have that child, they simply slipped through the net and now want to remove that choice from OTHER PEOPLE. It’s outrageous!

I agree OP. Women aren't having late stage abortions because they are dithering about wanting / not wanting a child.

I would not want to commit myself, my husband, and eventually my two existing children, to raising and then supporting into adulthood a child with any serious handicap, including downs. That is and must remain my right.

As said, it isn't about changing your mind. It's getting a diagnosis/prognosis that means a difficult decision has to be made. Usually it involves double scanning and speaking with a specialist, then counseling support.

I know someone who knew that they wanted an abortion as soon as she found out that she was pregnant. It took until her 14th week for the NHS appointment.

Certain medical conditions do not show up until the 20 week scan, and you need time after that to make a decision and to have the actual procedure.

Don't like it? Don't have one but it's absolutely essential that safe, legal abortion is available in some situations.

so it'd be OK to abort at 38 weeks just due to changing your mind?? I'd worry that a rule like that would disproportionately effect mothers with antenatal depression etc

This tedious bullshit gets trotted out allll the time. It just doesn't happen so your faux-concern is unnecessary. You do what you like with the contents of your uterus, and I will do what I like with the contents of mine. Really simple!

Good. As it should be.

So you have an anomaly scan at 21-22 weeks. They find something. You have another scan and some more tests. Those results take another week. Then you have to make a decision, look into what help is available, research your options, way up what you can cope with financially and emotionally. Then you have another appointment- you can see why 24 weeks is nothing? No one is having a termination after 24 weeks because on a whim.

24 weeks is more than enough bloody time to realise you don't want a baby imo.

Well - it is for most women. And nobody would carry on a pregnancy for that long just for the hell of it. So the women wanting to abort after that point usually have a bloody good reason for wanting to do so. Take the example of a friend of mine. She was pregnant with a much wanted second child. She’d told her son he was going to be a big brother, told all her friends and family. And then went along for a 20 week scan, which, because it’s often difficult to get an appointment through the NHS, was actually at 21+2. And - completely out of the blue - she was told that it looked like there was a problem. And she needed to come back in a fortnight. At 23+2. Where she was given the devastating news that the baby was very unlikely to be healthy or survive very long. You’re saying that she shouldn’t be allowed a few days to get her head around that? To consider her options? To tell her son that baby might not be - and sort out some childcare for going into hospital?

24 week abortions are rare. And 99.9% of the time, they’re women who’ve had horrendous news - or who are desperately vulnerable in some way. These women are deserving of sympathy and support.

And then very likely dying and abandoning an adult child who still needs support to the care of the state.

I think saying it is disgraceful shows a complete lack of understanding.
24 weeks is enough time to decide if you want a baby but we are not talking about aborting past 24 weeks simply because you do not want a baby.

we are talking about women who discover past 24 weeks that there is something seriously wrong with their child.

if I discovered past 24 weeks that my baby had a life limiting condition I would want all the information on the child’s condition and I would then want the option of making an informed choice on if I wanted to bring that baby into the world.

Abortion is a very emotive subject however every woman should be given the right to decide what they do with their bodies without others judging them.

So what happens for women who have their 20 week scan and find out their much wanted baby has life limiting problems or won’t survive to birth?

women aren’t having abortions at 24 weeks because they’ve just decided they don’t want a baby anymore.

Absolute bullshit. No one is murdering babies after they've been born. Take your anti-choice propaganda elsewhere.

How can you terminate after birth. Seriously? Explain that to me. According to the NHS website "An abortion is a procedure to end a pregnancy.". If the birth has already happened there is no pregnancy. It has already ended?

YANBU.

Incouldbt be happier at the news. I hope this woman now learns to shut up and mind her own business.