To be glad that the Down Syndrome abortion appeal was defeated

[Fififafa]

A woman with DS has twice tried and failed to get the courts to outlaw abortion beyond 24 weeks for foetuses with DS. Under current legislation for England, Wales and Scotland, there is a 24-week time limit for abortion, unless "there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped", which includes Down's syndrome.
I read that she has is being supported by some religious group.

I’m glad that the appeal was lost. This is a personal decision that every woman has the choice and the right to make. What Heidi Crowter et al are doing, is fighting to remove that choice from women. AIBU?

You sound like a QAnon quack.

What do you mean, Soapy? Terminating a pregnancy after the baby's been born?

Abortion should be legal throughout pregnancy for whatever reason.

Hospitals don't murder babies.

Good I'm very glad.

How can you terminate a pregnancy when you aren't pregnant anymore?  What legislation? Post it please so we can all read the exact wording

Im very pro choice but you are simplifying this case , it’s about nit allowing to terminate babies until the due that that have Down syndrome .

I agree with you.

I say that as someone who didn't have the Down's test done in my pregnancy, because I would not have aborted regardless, so there was no point. That was a decision my husband and I had made together.

If I fell pregnant now, I absolutely would have the test, and, if necessary, I absolutely would abort.

The difference being that its no longer just our lives, as consenting, knowledgeable adults, that would be affected, but that of our existing child, too, and for the rest of their lives.

I grew up with severely disabled relatives. I saw the impact that had on their siblings, and that - even now the relative in question has passed away - it still has. I will not, if I have any choice, ever put my child in that position.

Others may feel differently, and that's fine. That's why we have, and should continue to have, the choice.

I personally feel if you don't want a baby with Down's syndrome then you shouldn't be allowed to have a baby. I know this is controversial and many will agree. But if a person doesn't want a disabled baby of any kind they shouldn't have a baby in my opinion. Disability can happen at any moment

How are you planning on policing that?

I agree OP. It is not up to anyone to tell others what they can or cannot do with their own body. People don’t take these decisions lightly.

This is bollocks. Once a baby is born it's a person with its own rights. Terminating a baby after birth is called murder and has no relevance to this debate

I agree completely with the OP

Statistics show that the vast majority of women who do not want to be pregnant end the pregnancy prior to 10wks (around 80%), the remaining majority do so by around 13wks. Only 1% take place at 20wks so, despite having until 24wks, most women take care of it long before then. The reasons recorded for the abortion also begin to change from 13wks onwards with an increasing number being ended due to problems with the pregnancy, it's no coincidence that this is following the first universal pregnancy scan where initial problems may be identified.

Only around 270 abortions a year take place after 24wks, all of these are for very specific reasons. Some problems with a pregnancy may not become apparent until after the 20wk anomaly scan (which can take place anywhere from 18wks to 22wks depending on appointment availability). Where a problem is identified time then needs to be allowed for the women involved to consider their options, seek further testing, do some research, speak to family/friends, and make a decision, they may want to take a watch and wait approach to see if the prognosis improves or they may want to get a second opinion. They absolutely should be allowed as much time as they need and should not be rushed into deciding based on a 24wk cut-off, this is why abortion is allowed post-24wks in these circumstances.

Abortion is a deeply personal and private issue. As a society we should be fighting to provide support for mothers who do want to continue a pregnancy so they don't feel forced to terminate due to lack of support for disabled or for that matter non-disabled children. Reduction in the number of abortions could be achieved through a variety of means other than banning or limiting it.

But any legislation reducing a woman's autonomy over her reproductive system is a slippery slope IMO. So I too am glad this was defeated in court.

There are many ways to support individuals with Down's syndrome and their families without taking away this right from the VERY few women who choose to use it and for their own personal, private, and closely considered reasons need it.

The numbers for late term abortions are tiny. For those women they have made the very difficult decision to end the pregnancy for a valid reason AND that has been agreed by medics.

the views of everyone else on their reasons are irrelevant it doesn’t impact anyone out of that immediate family. If it’s not a choice you would make that’s fine but it doesn’t make others wrong.

It's not about not wanting a disabled baby. It's about not wanting to bring a baby into the world that cannot possibly have the quality of life you want to give them. Do we not all just want the best possible life for any child we have?

You’re not actually going to post any legislation though, are you?
Which is strange, because if it existed you’d be all over giving facts, right? 🙄
Pathetic.

Pto choice is pro choice and until you’re personally in that position you have no idea how you’d behave.
Choosing to abort a post-24 week foetus is not going to be a decision anyone takes lightly and must be hugely traumatic given you have to physically give birth. I have nothing but sympathy and support for those having to make this decision. By the grace of god and all that.

Also worth remembering you can’t outlaw abortion you can only outlaw legal abortion. Any change is rules will push things into backstreet clinics which will be a lot more dangerous.

Why?

Because downs isn't nothing. Downs can have mild outcomes that don't limit the individual much at all. Some people with downs can live independently and work.

For others they need life long support and care and it can come with physical health issues as well as learning and developmental delay.

It's a roll of the dice and I would never blame anyone for not wanting to gamble on it. If that's not your choice so be it. But you have no right or authority to be morally superior because other women might make a different choice.

I agree; it's clear that Heidi Crowther is high functioning as people with DS go, but easily manipulated by the pro life / forced birth lobby and is being used as a mouthpiece.

It would be unreasonable to expect her to understand all the nuances around late stage abortion. Her perspective is very much centred around the life she has lived, and doesn't understand the huge variety of disabilities, experiences and outcomes that are at stake here.

If it was just DS we were talking about and all people with DS were guaranteed to be as high functioning as her, and the state actually put in place adequate lifelong support without parents having to fight for it, I might tend to agree on the topic of post-24 week abortion. Unfortunately none of those things apply.

So you're advocating for some sort of test. For a healthy pregnancy, should there be a questionnaire asking parents if they would have aborted a foetus with anomolies to detemine whether or not they are deserving enough? Maybe include detector? Or is it just parents having the gut-wrenching decision as to whether or not they can support a child with disabilities that you reserve your judgement for?

I also wonder, how do these people with DS know about this complex and little-used law? Most adults who don’t have learning difficulties don’t know about it, and I’m guessing very few women with DS need abortions. I’m willing to bet their parents or disability advocates have actively told them, which is awful when you think about it.

Heidi's mother, and all the women like her, had a choice in her pregnancy and its disgusting that she is now seeking to remove that same choice from other women.

This woman seems to need to prove her worth and existence.
it’s great that she is doing well, but she shouldn’t seek to remove everyone’s choice based on her existence.
no one is saying that she shouldn’t have been born; no one is wanting to kill her. But people should have the choice of whether they want to continue the pregnancy and have a child that will change their and their family’s circumstances considerably. And not everyone is strong enough, or has enough money, or support.
i doubt that the decision to abort at that stage is an easy one.