Tiger parenting

[McCoysCheese]

I see a kid each week for tutoring. Chinese family, kid is Y8.

He's told me his parents love him and only hit him if he has been very bad. I've asked him to talk to his school counsellor but he said no, he's ok. I told him it's not allowed in this country for parents to hit kids. And that he can call Childline or NSPCC. But he doesn't want his parents to get in trouble.

If I report then I will never see him again and the situation doesn't change. Any advice?

I think a lot of posters are really oversimplifying this.

The truth is that UK social services are incompetent, quick to take kids away from parents (I think we have the highest forced adoption in the world?) and stick them in care where sexual abuse and grooming into drugs are common. Children taken into care have been placed on several occasions with more socially acceptable (white middle class) parents who then murder them, just look at the news reports in the last few years. It would have to be a very very extreme situation for me to involve social services in a child’s life and I’m not convinced that a disciplinary smack from an otherwise loving parent (who btw cares about the child enough to hire a tutor) meets that test. Being taken away from parents even just for a few days is one of the most traumatic things that can happen to a young child.

OP you are in an incredibly difficult position and I think you should explore and unpack further with the child exactly what is happening. Are these quick smacks or full on beating with belt? Is the child attacked when genuinely being naughty/rude to parents, or is this random abuse when the child didn’t think he was misbehaving?

Then follow your conscience and instincts and ignore the lot of us.

Yes, this. The OP needs to find out more about the situation before wading in and potentially making things worse.

Then follow your conscience and instincts and ignore the lot of us.

This is absolutely not something a tutor with a duty of care should be doing.
It's not for her to consider cultural implications, or what the outcome might be or all the other uncertain factors.

It's not for her to consider cultural implications, or what the outcome might be or all the other uncertain factors.

So, she should just interfere without giving the situation any thought? OK then.

Yes. A child has disclosed abuse. She has a duty of care to do something with that information.

Agree wholeheartedly with this.

The child has disclosed being smacked when he does something really bad (in his words). He has not disclosed abuse. As I said, the OP should get more information before deciding what to do.
There are many posters on this thread who think that a smack automatically translates into abuse. It doesn't.
Yes there are cases of abuse, but this is a child whose parents care enough to pay for a tutor. I haven't heard of any other child abuse cases where the child has the advantage of lessons outside school.

Unfortunately even if you refer on to school or children's services it is highly unlikely that anything will change. Someone will investigate and may deem it below threshold for intervention, meanwhile the family will have been alerted to the fact that their son is talking.

You do however have a legal duty to report. I would speak to school safeguarding team, explain that he is comfortable talking to you and therefore you wish to remain anonymous. The most likely scenario is that school will then keep a closer eye on him and possibly make a decision to refer on IF they have prior information which adds weight to this.

Legally you cannot keep it secret and the child cannot make his own decision on whether it is ok to be hit or not (and he wouldn't have mentioned it if he was genuinely ok with it).

I think it is a shame that you have got your information from unreliable sources and are now presenting them as facts.

Please cite the sources for your assertions that:

a)Social services are quick to take children away from parents
b) the UK has the highest forced adoption rate in the world

Yes, I accept that a tiny number of children have been abused by foster/ adoptive carers, these are tragedies that can’t be minimised or denied but it is worth remembering that far more children annually are abused both physically and emotionally by their parents. A horrifying number are killed by their parents. For many of those children a call to social services, or a referral to a safeguarding lead at a school could have prevented what happened within the walls of those childrens homes .

We have safeguarding procedures because they are needed, not because they tick boxes.

I was involved in child protection and believe me, some of the abuses I heard about were as far removed from “quick smacks to naughty children” as you can imagine, or to be more accurate, as you clearly can’t imagine.

Nobody is saying it’s abuse -the legal duty of deciding whether it’s abuse or not is down to the professionals who work in child protection not for the tutor to investigate. Clearly many do not have any knowledge of how safeguarding works in this country and it’s shameful op has clearly not undergone any training on this despite working with children.

Speak to local safeguarding team foe advice. You can do this anonymously initially.

They should have records of whether other people have reported concerns about the child as well

Just mind your own business

If you are working as a tutor you must have a safeguarding policy in-line with the law.

She has a duty of care to do something with that information.

I've just googled, and apparently tutoring is completely unregulated in England, which must mean there are no specific legal obligations that tutors have.

If I'm wrong to believe that tutors have no more legal obligations than any other person a child comes in contact with, somebody please post a link to show this. (Don't assume tutors will be teachers.)

OP says "only hit him if he has been very bad". He is upset enough to have told an adult and to be worried about repercussions. I think that he is being subjected to abuse.

"Care enough to pay for a tutor". I don't even know where to start with that level of ignorance.

Safeguarding is everyone’s responsibility not just professionals including Joe Public. The tutor doesn’t need to legally undergo safeguarding training but anyone interested in child protection would want to learn about the procedures involved to be better informed so if something were to come out of it, you’ve got your back covered and can justify why you didn’t report it when someone made a disclosure to you. The fact that the op thinks hitting is just a part of ‘tiger parenting’ shows their ignorance really.

But if you're saying they are incompetent, it follows that thousands fall through the net and end up with years of abuse, or worse.

Like the tragic case of Logan Mwangi, how many little boys are slipping through the net, suffering, only to hear about them when it ends with murder?

A lot to unpack here.

Social services teams have made mistakes, but it is ridiculous to write an entire profession off as incompetent.

Social services do not remove children from their families - only a judge can do that.

"Follow your instincts" is bad advice, because people who have had abusive experiences themselves will often feel like something is ok when it isn't. It also provides a get out clause when someone doesn't want to inconvenience themselves by acting in the way they should. That is why there is generally a policy or guidance to follow.

Something can both be legal and be abusive.

The lack of detail in the disclosure means it is impossible to know if the physical abuse described crosses the bar into illegality.

It is completely irrelevant when a child is abused in response to bad behaviour or not. No child can behave in a way that "deserves" abuse.

OP you are in an incredibly difficult position and I think you should explore and unpack further with the child exactly what is happening. Are these quick smacks or full on beating with belt? Is the child attacked when genuinely being naughty/rude to parents, or is this random abuse when the child didn’t think he was misbehaving?

Then follow your conscience and instincts and ignore the lot of us.
Safeguarding training makes it very clear that on having a safeguarding concern, or in the event a child discloses, it is NOT the role of the adult to investigate.
It is the role of the adult to pass the information on to the relevant person/authority, and they will decide next steps.

Unfortunately the OP thinks she's above following safeguarding procedures and is being cheered on by equally uninformed people like yourself.

It would be a fairly awful situation for a serious case review to happen and someone seriously has to live telling themselves they did a great thing by doing their own investigation and /or ignoring safeguarding concerns due to a child's race, but it's ok because some random people on Mumsnet gave her a pat on the back and said she was fine.

“It would have to be a very very extreme situation for me to involve social services in a child’s life”

what, like death?

I hope you don’t work with children.

sorry, can’t read the whole thread but I have read all of OP’s replies.

@McCoysCheese you have a legal and professional duty to report the disclosure to Children’s Services. It is not your place to decide that they may make things worse. If you do not report this then you are negligent in your duty to protect this child. Your silence leaves him at risk of harm.

You sound like you haven’t got a clue about safeguarding procedures, and on that basis, should not be working with children in a professional capacity.

Report what was said directly to children’s services - their contact details will be on your local council’s website.

Then book yourself on to a safeguarding course.

Aside from your duty to report the disclosure in order to protect the child, you’re also leaving yourself open to criminal proceedings for negligence if you do not report it.

You sound like you haven’t got a clue about safeguarding procedures, and on that basis, should not be working with children in a professional capacity.
Agree with this 100%

Nobody who is this clueless about safeguarding should be working with children and it frankly very worrying that there's a lot of equally clueless posters encouraging the OP to act in a way that could put a child at risk.

Not being goady but it's not illegal to smack in this country so why on earth report it? He clearly stated it was done as a punishment when bad not just random abuse.

Smacking isn't inherently abusive.

I don't know how people who fail to act to protect children can live with themselves afterwards.

Is that really the sort of person you want to be, op?

As stated many times above, this decision is not for the op to make.

Also, something can be both legal and abusive. It is not illegal for a parent to abandon a child as long as someone else is caring for them, but it is still damaging. There is no criminal law to prevent a parent telling their child that they hate them and they are useless, but it is still abuse.

Not being goady but it's not illegal to smack in this country so why on earth report it? He clearly stated it was done as a punishment when bad not just random abuse.
Because unless someone is going to do an investigation on the injuries (which they shouldn't), they don't know the level of violence that's been directed to the child.

If there's no other concerns around the child and the information is shared, it sits on the system and nothing will come of it.

But if the child has reported being physically disciplined to their tutor and that's reported, and the relevant safeguarding people also have reports from other adults around the child about concerns then that child is more likely to get the support they need.

(FWIW, I think smacking is abusive. In no other relation would be tolerate one person using violence and fear to control another person to behave a certain way, but have set that personal view to one side to answer your question).