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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to make a complaint to head

182 replies

bothsidesofasmile · 24/11/2022 17:58

Hi all,

I'm looking for some opinions on if I'm being unreasonable with my child's primary school. DS6 after being picked up from afterschool club was visibly upset. After asking what was wrong he told us that a member of staff at the after school club had shouted at him because he accidentally broke a new toy. He said he was putting it away as it was tidy up time and one piece didn't fit in the box, he thought said piece could come apart and I'm trying to pull it apart it broke. Another child told this member of staff who approached DS and he says told him off and told him not to do it again. His twin brother also confirms this story.

Now I should mention DS is on the SEN register and is on the autism diagnosis pathway for social and emotional issues. He can be a sensitive child and this is known by all staff members. I emailed DS class teacher and the sendco at the school as I thought this was a bit much for what had happened and was surprised a member of staff had approached DS in this way knowing of his additional needs. I sent the email feeling as if perhaps half of the story was missing as is often the case with children of DS age.

To my surprise the sendco at the school emailed me to confirm DS story. Although apparently there was no shouting but he was spoken to firmly. The sendco says the children had been warned that this was a new toy and they were to be careful with it. The Higher level ta confirms that she said it was a shame that it had got broken as no one could play with it now and that DS was upset but she make a big thing of it and encouraged him to move on to the next activity. The sendco says the ta acted appropriately for the situation.

Now this has thrown me a little AIBU to expect a child not to be shamed after an accident and to not need to be spoken to firmly after an accident? Or am I being too sensitive?

OP posts:
bothsidesofasmile · 25/11/2022 11:07

@SnotRag22 you are also bloody brilliant!

OP posts:
BoardLikeAMirror · 25/11/2022 11:23

SnotRag22 · 25/11/2022 10:26

*ExhaustedFlamingo I think I might be a bit in love with you.

Agree - we need more Flamingoes in the world.

bothsidesofasmile · 25/11/2022 11:25

@BoardLikeAMirror @SnotRag22 @ExhaustedFlamingo it would be great if you were all nearby all the time. You've made me feel empowered which is the exact opposite to what I was this morning blubbering down the phone to camhs 🤣

OP posts:
Tandora · 25/11/2022 13:40

ExhaustedFlamingo · 25/11/2022 10:23

Yes, exactly.

So the toy was broken due to your DS's disability which manifests as processing delays, lack of comprehension and difficulties with expressive speech (ie/asking for assistance), which were outlined in the SALT report. The toy was broken as a direct result of his disability and difficulties, at a time where your child was taking particular care to try and NOT break the toy by taking it apart before placing it in the box.

Hi SENCO,

Further to our conversations, I remain deeply concerned about the strategies employed and the insistence that this was the correct way to address the matter.

I understand the frustration with the toy being broken, and as per my previous correspondence, I will be purchasing a replacement as a matter of urgency.

If DS had been deliberately careless, rough or reckless with the toy, I would agree with the course of action. However, the reverse is actually true. DS was taking particular care to place the toy in the box without breaking it. He believed that the toy came apart, and that was the only way that it could fit into the box.

It's very evident that his SEN is the sole reason that this situation arose. As you are aware from the SALT report, DS has processing delays, difficulties with comprehension and also challenges with expressive speech.

Given that there were no intent or lack of care on his part, and his actions arose solely as a result of his SEN, I'm still struggling to see how a reprimand will help him learn from this experience? Or how it was appropriate? It feels very much that DS is being reprimanded for something which was beyond the scope of his control and understanding at the time.

A parallel to this would be a child with a physical disability, who fell over while attempting to walk, breaking the toy as they fell. Would they be similarly reprimanded for falling over? (I would sincerely hope the answer to this would would be no!)

Both of these outcomes are directly attributable to SEN/disability but it feels that my DS is being penalised as his needs are not so outwardly visible.

Can you please explain to me:

a) how your response to his actions took his needs "into consideration"
b) why it's appropriate to reprimand a child who was trying to follow the instructions but due to SEN misinterpreted the correct process
c) how the actions taken will prevent this situation from happening again - not just with this toy, but another toy?
d) how were "reasonable adjustments" made which accommodate my DS's known SEN?
e) given his known SEN as described in the SALT report, what actions were taken to ensure that my DS knew how to put the toy away? eg/modelling the process and checking his comprehension

I'm failing to see how DS was given any support in the circumstances or how his needs were taken into account. He appears to have been reprimanded just as any non-SEN child would have been who broke the toy deliberately. Reprimanding a child who thought they were doing the right thing will create a fear response and only exacerbate his difficulties.

Your email seems to suggest that you are centring the TA's upset at the breakage rather than addressing the fact that my DS's known SEN needs hadn't been fully met, and that's why the misunderstanding occurred.

I believe it's entirely feasible to have dealt with the situation, and addressed the TA's upset, without rebuking DS. For example, a conversation - or even better, a social story - which sets out how other children and teachers are sad when things get broken, and what actions he could take to avoid this again eg/putting the item to one side if it doesn't fit in the box. This would have made it a learning experience for him, without being punished for having SEN - which is how it feels now.

I await your reply.

Omg this is perfect. Please send this. It’s an important learning opportunity for the SEN coordinator and the TA and will hopefully ensure more appropriate care of your DS in future xx

Mybumlooksbig · 25/11/2022 15:17

No..You are NOT being unreasonable.. My son sounds similar and I would be bloody raging.

OverCCCs · 25/11/2022 15:41

ExhaustedFlamingo · 25/11/2022 10:23

Yes, exactly.

So the toy was broken due to your DS's disability which manifests as processing delays, lack of comprehension and difficulties with expressive speech (ie/asking for assistance), which were outlined in the SALT report. The toy was broken as a direct result of his disability and difficulties, at a time where your child was taking particular care to try and NOT break the toy by taking it apart before placing it in the box.

Hi SENCO,

Further to our conversations, I remain deeply concerned about the strategies employed and the insistence that this was the correct way to address the matter.

I understand the frustration with the toy being broken, and as per my previous correspondence, I will be purchasing a replacement as a matter of urgency.

If DS had been deliberately careless, rough or reckless with the toy, I would agree with the course of action. However, the reverse is actually true. DS was taking particular care to place the toy in the box without breaking it. He believed that the toy came apart, and that was the only way that it could fit into the box.

It's very evident that his SEN is the sole reason that this situation arose. As you are aware from the SALT report, DS has processing delays, difficulties with comprehension and also challenges with expressive speech.

Given that there were no intent or lack of care on his part, and his actions arose solely as a result of his SEN, I'm still struggling to see how a reprimand will help him learn from this experience? Or how it was appropriate? It feels very much that DS is being reprimanded for something which was beyond the scope of his control and understanding at the time.

A parallel to this would be a child with a physical disability, who fell over while attempting to walk, breaking the toy as they fell. Would they be similarly reprimanded for falling over? (I would sincerely hope the answer to this would would be no!)

Both of these outcomes are directly attributable to SEN/disability but it feels that my DS is being penalised as his needs are not so outwardly visible.

Can you please explain to me:

a) how your response to his actions took his needs "into consideration"
b) why it's appropriate to reprimand a child who was trying to follow the instructions but due to SEN misinterpreted the correct process
c) how the actions taken will prevent this situation from happening again - not just with this toy, but another toy?
d) how were "reasonable adjustments" made which accommodate my DS's known SEN?
e) given his known SEN as described in the SALT report, what actions were taken to ensure that my DS knew how to put the toy away? eg/modelling the process and checking his comprehension

I'm failing to see how DS was given any support in the circumstances or how his needs were taken into account. He appears to have been reprimanded just as any non-SEN child would have been who broke the toy deliberately. Reprimanding a child who thought they were doing the right thing will create a fear response and only exacerbate his difficulties.

Your email seems to suggest that you are centring the TA's upset at the breakage rather than addressing the fact that my DS's known SEN needs hadn't been fully met, and that's why the misunderstanding occurred.

I believe it's entirely feasible to have dealt with the situation, and addressed the TA's upset, without rebuking DS. For example, a conversation - or even better, a social story - which sets out how other children and teachers are sad when things get broken, and what actions he could take to avoid this again eg/putting the item to one side if it doesn't fit in the box. This would have made it a learning experience for him, without being punished for having SEN - which is how it feels now.

I await your reply.

DS was taking particular care to place the toy in the box without breaking it. He believed that the toy came apart, and that was the only way that it could fit into the box. It's very evident that his SEN is the sole reason that this situation arose.

Why are you attributing this mistake solely to his SEN? This seems like a typical mistake from a six year old to me, and a case of not knowing which toys can and can’t be taken apart.

The TA works with children full time and is better able to attribute this behaviour to the standard “six year old needing to learn more about how the world works” and nothing to do with some over complicated SEN reason as you are making it out to be. Seriously, has no one else had their NT child unintentionally break a toy?

OP, don’t fall into the trap of blaming completely normal childhood behaviour, good or bad, on SEN. It will drive you batty.

bothsidesofasmile · 25/11/2022 16:02

@OverCCCs what you won't be aware of over of how badly uniformed school staff are on autism and sen in general. A ta does not know more about my son than the average person and for most people ignorance is bliss. If you haven't had a child with sen or do not have autism yourself I can see why you would think this but the reality is very different.

OP posts:
Crazycrazylady · 25/11/2022 17:07

Honestly you're going to face a long and difficult road ahead of you if you're going to object to teachers speaking to your son 'firmly'

bothsidesofasmile · 25/11/2022 17:07

@Tandora isn't it just! @ExhaustedFlamingo is amazing!

I did send this and I had a phone call within two hours from the pastoral leader at the school. She couldn't apologise enough for how things had been handled and assured me this will be handled differently in the future. She then went on to tell me about her own autistic son who is now in his 30s and thriving. It was a beautiful conversation and she has restored my trust in the school!

Thank you so much @ExhaustedFlamingo I really can't say it enough 💐

OP posts:
bothsidesofasmile · 25/11/2022 17:09

Crazycrazylady · 25/11/2022 17:07

Honestly you're going to face a long and difficult road ahead of you if you're going to object to teachers speaking to your son 'firmly'

I'm not against my child being spoken to firmly if it is justified, in this case it wasn't! If you don't understand why it isn't justified then lucky you.

OP posts:
HerMajestysRoyalCoven · 25/11/2022 17:13

It’s going to be a long road of schooling, I can see. You need to learn to pick your battles. This isn’t one of them. People are going to speak firmly to your son and you can’t ask that this never happen because he has SEN.

Who’d be a teacher, honestly.

BoardLikeAMirror · 25/11/2022 17:13

bothsidesofasmile · 25/11/2022 17:07

@Tandora isn't it just! @ExhaustedFlamingo is amazing!

I did send this and I had a phone call within two hours from the pastoral leader at the school. She couldn't apologise enough for how things had been handled and assured me this will be handled differently in the future. She then went on to tell me about her own autistic son who is now in his 30s and thriving. It was a beautiful conversation and she has restored my trust in the school!

Thank you so much @ExhaustedFlamingo I really can't say it enough 💐

This is a great result, and I hope it's noted by those previous posters who have tried to minimise your DS's experience. It sounds as though the pastoral lead will be a great ally for your DS as he navigates school life.

bothsidesofasmile · 25/11/2022 17:16

HerMajestysRoyalCoven · 25/11/2022 17:13

It’s going to be a long road of schooling, I can see. You need to learn to pick your battles. This isn’t one of them. People are going to speak firmly to your son and you can’t ask that this never happen because he has SEN.

Who’d be a teacher, honestly.

Trust me I do! But this very opinion is the reason things can't be left because I'll be labelled as a moaner or I'm making life hard for myself. This unfortunately is part and parcel or being a parent to a child with Autism due to the overwhelming opinions in the general population surrounding SEN and this is very well documented in this thread. Education is needed across the board!! If I exhaust myself by trying to give my son what he needs by getting others to understand him, then that's what I'll do!!

OP posts:
bothsidesofasmile · 25/11/2022 17:24

@BoardLikeAMirror it is and I hope so she did really seem to just get it 🤞🏻

I am so glad I started this thread because not only have I come across the realisation of just how uneducated people are on SEN but also the power of people who get it! The empowerment and relief that I felt receiving messages off those of you with far more experience than I in this has just been amazing. So thankyou everyone you've all added to this crazy journey that I'm on with my boy 💐

OP posts:
HerMajestysRoyalCoven · 25/11/2022 17:43

Glad you got the result you were after. Can I leave you with the thought that the world isn’t divided into people who agree with you and NT people? I’m ND, and the experiences I’ve had have shaped my understanding as much as any other poster here. Disagreeing with you doesn’t mean that I’m ignorant or uneducated about the issues. It just means that I disagree.

Tandora · 25/11/2022 17:52

bothsidesofasmile · 25/11/2022 17:07

@Tandora isn't it just! @ExhaustedFlamingo is amazing!

I did send this and I had a phone call within two hours from the pastoral leader at the school. She couldn't apologise enough for how things had been handled and assured me this will be handled differently in the future. She then went on to tell me about her own autistic son who is now in his 30s and thriving. It was a beautiful conversation and she has restored my trust in the school!

Thank you so much @ExhaustedFlamingo I really can't say it enough 💐

Brilliant result!! Well done OP 💪🏻. You just made things a little bit better, not only for your DS, but for other children with SEN by educating a couple of very silly teaching staff. So glad the pastoral lead was so supportive and understanding xx 🫶🏻

bothsidesofasmile · 25/11/2022 17:54

HerMajestysRoyalCoven · 25/11/2022 17:43

Glad you got the result you were after. Can I leave you with the thought that the world isn’t divided into people who agree with you and NT people? I’m ND, and the experiences I’ve had have shaped my understanding as much as any other poster here. Disagreeing with you doesn’t mean that I’m ignorant or uneducated about the issues. It just means that I disagree.

I don't believe that, I do believe there are people in the world who do not have to experience something to be kind, compassionate and understanding of others experiences while also not completely agreeing and that's so ok. Everyone's experiences will be different and that's also ok.

When I say ignorant I didn't mean intentionally ignorant, I mean it in the sense that if you haven't had to live through something you surely don't have as much knowledge about an experience as someone who has. Before having my Sons I would have probably had the same opinion as much of the posters here because I hadn't experienced any of the SEN world, and my opinions were based purely on how I saw neurotypical children. That is unintentional ignorance. When I say uneducated, my experience with DS school HAS shown a big lack of understanding with people in my mind and lots of others mine should be educated on SEN but have a very long way to go.

OP posts:
Puddywoodycat · 25/11/2022 17:57

Intent is the whole crux of this.

In his mind he was trying to be careful with a toy and he accidentally broke it.
Now his emotions are hurt because someone didn't understand him.

All of this needs to feed back into training but op. Schools are still in the dark ages when it comes to Sen and training etc.

It really takes the brave parent's on this thread to highlight stuff like this and also note it for MPs / council's...to keep change happening.

We should all push for all teaching staff to have basic levels of training on Sen.

Unfortunately we will never be able to have a more personal education system that fits all DC but imagine the difference of that staff member had been a little more gentle and asked some questions first before going crazy over a plastic object.

Imagine if just very small adjustments could be made day to day?

bothsidesofasmile · 25/11/2022 17:58

Puddywoodycat · 25/11/2022 17:57

Intent is the whole crux of this.

In his mind he was trying to be careful with a toy and he accidentally broke it.
Now his emotions are hurt because someone didn't understand him.

All of this needs to feed back into training but op. Schools are still in the dark ages when it comes to Sen and training etc.

It really takes the brave parent's on this thread to highlight stuff like this and also note it for MPs / council's...to keep change happening.

We should all push for all teaching staff to have basic levels of training on Sen.

Unfortunately we will never be able to have a more personal education system that fits all DC but imagine the difference of that staff member had been a little more gentle and asked some questions first before going crazy over a plastic object.

Imagine if just very small adjustments could be made day to day?

Exactly this!

OP posts:
Puddywoodycat · 25/11/2022 17:59

Well done op do write to your mp, obviously in the grand scheme of things this is minor but it's important they know how bad knowledge of sen is in school.

ILOVECHEESE79 · 25/11/2022 18:01

zingally · 25/11/2022 09:44

You're being too sensitive. Accidentally or not, he broke something that was brand new. I'm not surprised he got spoken to firmly.
His SEN is pretty irrelevant. Are you not supposed to "tell off" SEN kids? If they need correction, of course you are! If he's in mainstream school, he's capable of handling a telling off. Loads of kids are upset when you tell them off - that's normal. SEN doesn't make you immune from discipline, or give you a free pass.

@zingally I agree that OP is being too sensitive, but her child's SEN is NOT irrelevant in this instance and you clearly don't have a clue about SEN, especially ASD, with your frankly ignorant sounding ableist comments.

lollipoprainbow · 25/11/2022 18:01

Schools have a long way to go before sen is fully understood sadly. In a meeting a couple of years my dd teacher asked her 'why don't you look at me when I speak to you?' Umm because she's autistic 🙄🙄🙄

bothsidesofasmile · 25/11/2022 18:02

@Tandora thank you! And you're right it's so important for the other children with SEN. More education and more understanding is key to this and change only happens when people push for it 💐💕

OP posts:
bothsidesofasmile · 25/11/2022 18:07

lollipoprainbow · 25/11/2022 18:01

Schools have a long way to go before sen is fully understood sadly. In a meeting a couple of years my dd teacher asked her 'why don't you look at me when I speak to you?' Umm because she's autistic 🙄🙄🙄

Omg that is truly awful!!! It is disappointing to see just how far there is to go but I think there has been change, you only have to look at 30 years ago and how autistic children were treated. Unfortunately these things take time. A long long time and peoples outdated opinions take even longer to change, even when provision changes, old opinions take longer to change than anything. I really believe once society's opinion on something changes for the majority, that's when things really change. That's why these conversations are so important 💐

OP posts:
lollipoprainbow · 25/11/2022 18:27

@bothsidesofasmile yes I suppose we should be grateful sen kids aren't placed in institutions anymore ! We still have a way to go hopefully we will get there.