Shamima Begum's mother

[AddingUp]

I read an article about Shamima Begum's mother in the Daily Mail. I am very much in the camp that Shamima Begum should come back to the UK and be trialed here as her crimes.

Anyway, the mother says how close she was with Shamima and how she misses her etc.

If I were Shamima Begum's mum and my daughter was not allowed into the UK, I would travel to the refugee camp to be with her. Or, I would take my daughter to Bangladesh just to be with her and not leave her on her own.

I don't understand why Shamima Begum's mum takes no action to support her daughter!

'Ms' Begum doesn't deserve one iota of help from this country. I am only sad that the money being wasted by her legal team isn't being spent on something worthwhile like a Nuremburg style court for all IS adherents. I understand your point about due process, after all, we gave it to Nazis and Balkan war criminals but let the sentence be carried out in Syria.

I’m not clear if you mean literally throw her to a lynch mob of bereaved Yazidi parents to be murdered, or if you think there is an independent Yazidi state somewhere with a functioning criminal justice system?

She is not going to be tried by the people she harmed, because there is still an active civil war going on there. Hence the refugee camps.

And yes, I do loathe her and her type. I worked in Syria for 5 years. I loved the people, the culture and have and had many friends there, some if whom were murdered by IS for no reason at all.

There is no Yazidi state but a court could be set up on their behalf. Frankly, she's no better than Nazi guards who dressed as concentration camp prisoners when they knew the Allies were at the gate. In fact, her 'victimhood' tales sicken me as much as what she forced others to endure.

Whenever these threads come up people always end up referring to SB as "groomed" and today I see "trafficked".

I'm sure if the women and children who are exploited and trafficked had been able to see video footage of their future reality they'd have run screaming from the risk.

We know from the police investigation at the time that SB watched beheading videos on line before she stole a passport and went to join a death cult. I couldn't even stand to watch that footage as an adult so I didn't but she not only watched it but actively went looking for the sickening images.

I can accept she has been radicalised but it's really offensive to use words trafficked and groomed in this situation. I read a home office report a few years ago which reported that when immersed in radical ideology people become more dangerous not less. SB has been assessed as a serious threat to national security, more so now than when she left. Individuals who are groomed and trafficked do not pose the same risk to others when they are rescued.

Her crimes committed in the UK were minor and she would be unlikely to receive a custodial sentence if she were tried for them. We have no jurisdiction to prosecute her for crimes committed elsewhere nevermind the challenges of undertaking an investigation to gather evidence of those crimes.

If she is returned to the UK she will need 24/7 surveillance and security, for our safety and hers, she is currently recieving both with no cost or risk to us so she should stay where she is.

All the above ^^ are good reasons why SB should be tried in a UK court, not bad reasons.

Why would the British government NOT want all this evidence to come out and be heard, openly and in the public domain?

Thank you for a measured and factual summary. Spot on.

This ☝️ probably the most balanced if the responses on the thread.

Why would the British government NOT want all this evidence to come out and be heard, openly and in the public domain?

How do you propose we gather the evidence? Should a team of detectives be parachuted into Syria with their notepad and pencils to question the locals? How are you going to bring charges without evidence?

How is your argument different to the one that said the girls who were victims of grooming gangs were making a lifestyle choice?

They’d need the ability to turn back time, too.

This

Well, he was never committed to his first wife and family in the first place so unlikely he would start to want to play the doting father now..

Can’t they use the evidence they used to strip her of her citizenship?

Let's just feel sorry for every little criminal out there shall we?

I feel so sorry for the mass shooters in America, I mean, let's ignore that they've killed innocent people, because it's not their fault. They were radicalised on the internet and only teenagers themselves.

And all of those knife carrying gangs, I wish I could offer them a bedroom as I'm sure they're such lovely lads underneath it all. Yes, they push drugs to youngster via county lines but let's not forget their tough upbringings.

Oh, and child beaters, they're the ones I feel most sorry for as they must have been raised with beatings themselves. Let's just forgive and move on.

Honestly - she was 15! And incredibly smart. Whatever the reason for it, she was insanely cruel over a long period of time. I still don't think she is sorry for what happened or regrets her actions. I don't care if she was vulnerable or influenced. She was old enough to know better. I would say exactly the same to my own kids if they deared to terrorise and murder innocent people.

Like many perpetrators, she is only sorry she is no longer in the ascendancy, that she got caught out and isn't walking away scot free hence the reptiles representing her trying to control the narrative and spin a tale of woe to try to soften everyone up and distract from what a nasty piece of work she is and to gloss over the atrocities that she supported and revelled in!

Get a fucking life!

Well yes, that would be the general idea.

Play it all out in court. She has incriminated herself enough times; it's not like she's going to be NOT inside prison for a very long time.

I find what she did utterly repugnant but I also want know why; and how. As a country we need to be experts in the psychology and the humdrum logistics of how teenagers become desensitised to and indocrinated into belief systems. This is not a problem we can just park in a Syrian refugee camp - it's on out doorsteps.

Let her explain herself.

Can’t they use the evidence they used to strip her of her citizenship?

There are clauses in international treaties which permit reasons of national security to be used as justification for stripping someone of citizenship and effectively leaving them stateless, leaving your country to join a terrorist organisation qualifies. I did the research on this several years ago so I'm unable to recall the specific documents. The government did not use evidence of the crimes she committed in Syria as justification for stripping her of citizenship, she left to join ISIS that was enough.

She can explain herself from where she is. She doesn't need to physically be in the UK. Once she steps foot here, she will be here permanently. She knows it and her legal team know it. I am sure if they look through the refugee camps and refugee population in Europe, they will find some Yazidis who encountered her and Syrian women who had to live under the spite of 'Ms Begum' when she was casually abusing them in her IS police career!

Because she'd likely get a sentence of something like 20 years. Be out in 10.

All the time she's in prison she'll be trying to radicalise people. And on the outside she'll be a real risk to all of us.

That's why we don't want her. I couldn't care less what happens to her. She's one person. The risk of her being in the UK would endanger so many more.

‘We know from the police investigation at the time that SB watched beheading videos on line before she stole a passport and went to join a death cult. I couldn't even stand to watch that footage as an adult so I didn't but she not only watched it but actively went looking for the sickening images.’

Alarmingly, recently reported comments made by Rachel de Souza, the Children’s Commissioner, suggest that a significant % of UK children have watched videos of beheadings. www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/nov/12/we-cant-leave-children-exposed-to-online-harm-this-law-is-our-chance-to-protect-them

Youre being saucy, but you can feel empathy for how people end up in a situation or even feel none and still recognises that britain should be deal with their own criminals.

And yes, so many young boys in gangs and embroiled in knife crime are groomed into the life from very young ages, victims of sexual violence they'll never admit and thus continue the cycle over and over and over.

regardless she should be friends and prosecuted here. The creation of two tiered citizenship system which will disproportionately be used as a cudgel against ethnic minority britons is foul and should be condemned at every instance.

Where will she go if she comes back and who would honestly be happy with her living in their area? I know where I live she'd get the same treatment as child sex offenders have got and wouldn't last five minutes, absolutely no way could the police protect her or offer her a new identity with the amount of press coverage she's brought on herself. She might not think it but she's safer where she is after some of her comments she's made to journalists. I think if she showed some remorse she might have a chance but there's absolutely zero regret in any interviews I've seen, she just feels sorry for herself and can't seem to comprehend the damage her terrorist organisation has caused.

I find what she did utterly repugnant but I also want know why; and how.

Do you really think that someone who went off to join a death cult which hates everything liberal democracies stand for is going to play the role of helpful lab rab so we can study her motivation with a view to preventing radicalisation?

That would be like asking a paedophile for input into child safeguarding policy.