Shamima Begum's mother

[AddingUp]

I read an article about Shamima Begum's mother in the Daily Mail. I am very much in the camp that Shamima Begum should come back to the UK and be trialed here as her crimes.

Anyway, the mother says how close she was with Shamima and how she misses her etc.

If I were Shamima Begum's mum and my daughter was not allowed into the UK, I would travel to the refugee camp to be with her. Or, I would take my daughter to Bangladesh just to be with her and not leave her on her own.

I don't understand why Shamima Begum's mum takes no action to support her daughter!

@MissEnolaHolmes you haven't seen the legal documents, have you?

SoS was ONLY able to remove SBs British Citizenship on the basis of her dual/Bangladeshi citizenship. Because she was born in the UK.

here; www.statelessness.eu/updates/blog/shamima-begum-supreme-court-judgment-what-are-implications-statelessness-cases

But she DOESNT have Bangladeshi citizenship

Yabu for reading the mail. It’s utter shite and responsible for a lot of division and misinformation

I agree with Bibo.

She was a child, she was groomed.

I also think she should return to the UK and we should deal with her here.
The grooming took place in the UK and we should try to repair what we can.
We need her to go through the legal process here

She was 15. Groomed. Radicalised through that grooming with adult men and adult women
she was not an adult. She was not a 19, 20 , 30 year old man who went specifically to kill people

There are men who went to specifically fight, and did fight, that have come back here to serve their sentences. Including other women who became ISIS brides, having gone when they were adults (Shakil was imprisoned in uk for 6 years for instance and is now freed ).

Yes, Begum has held onto her (a lot) of beliefs once older during being interviewed. By then she been subject to ISIS propaganda, threats, fear, grooming etc. for some years. She went through the trauma of giving birth to and loosing 4 children in 5 years. She’s seen some traumatic things which she said didn’t impact her- all the signs of someone who has been taught to normalise extreme violence through exposure - like child soldiers. she would not have access to a balanced view of ISIS or any outsider perspective. Fgs, she couldn’t even show her face in that regime. I’m not saying her views are ok- but it’s not like she was sitting in uk, watching balanced news and coming to same conclusion.

she has been singled out and vilified because she is female and it makes good news stories. Bad women are always pilloried worse than an even worse man. They’re held to standards men are not. The British government has then used her as a pawn in showing how tough they are on terrorist. Name, off the top of your head, one other British citizen who’s been stripped of their citizenship and is stateless? Nope? There are 23 form that ISIS era, but it seems it is only her that gets the attention because papers like the daily mail make her to be the personification of that evil regime - rather than the vulnerable and susceptible school girl she was, who made mistakes. Yes, she needs to be held accountable and punished : but the uk government refuse to do that even though she is a British citizen.

If she had been groomed for marriage to an extremist, and stayed in this country and not gone abroad, and been “married off at 15” - we’d be prosecuting the groomer for crimes including rape (she was under 16) , even if she was stupid, naive and walked happily away with her abuser.

the government has acted potentially illegally in removing her citizenship. It was a landMark ruling - she was the first one. Legally you can only do that if a person has for citizenship in another country. Even then there are additional stipulations. The only country theoretically she may have citizenship for is Bangladesh- her parents were born there. She has never lived there. She does not hold citizenship there right now and would have to apply. This whole ruling has created much fear in immigrant populations, it opens up a 2 tier citizen right question- even if you were born in uk and have no other citizenship, if your parents once held citizenship in another country, the government can rip away your passport and rights and treat you like a foreign national. And she faces the death penalty if she does go to Bangladesh and is tried there. Hardly a choice. She remains stateless indefinitely, in a refuge camp with the uk government determined to use her to make a point. They have no intention of actually, putting her on trial and letting justice decide her punishment. She is trying to fight that decision- as is her right . The USA incidentally repatriated all its “ISIS “ citizen and put them on trial.

but I’m guessing you thought detaining people indefinitely in appalling conditions, without trial , in Guantanamo Bay was a excellent idea too,

Amen

‘Let's not forget her father was captured on film at one of the delightful Anjhem Choudrys hate rallies, along side one of Lee rigbys murderers
Wasn't that Hussen Abase, Amira Abase's dad?
The one who was boo-hooing while clutching his daughter's Arsenal teddy, but was later found to have encouraged Amira himself?’

Yes, Hussen Abase.
Amira Abase, Shamima Begum & Kasiza Sultana left the UK together in 2015. UK media at the time showed CCTV footage of them travelling together to Turkey & they had been reported as missing. How they could afford & buy their tickets is a question to ask, did they have help? Did they already have passports in their names? Sensible questions that would reveal the extent of their enterprise & if/how they were helped.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31575908

They knew of young people in their immediate community who had gone overseas to support IS & as mentioned above, at least one parent of the girls attended heavily radicalised rallies with his daughter. A potent mix.

SB’s actions supporting ISIL in Syria were not benign, it is reported that she carried arms, actively took part preparing suicide bombers & was a reputed strict enforcer for the ISIL morality police which included women’s dress codes. She was not trafficked as an underage sex worker, she went to Syria to serve ISIL.

Deluded? Radicalised? Naive? Or just adolescent arrogance?
Who knows?
From my recall of that time, she was considered bright so no doubts about her intellect.
Just don’t buy the revisionist innocence.

Op is the last person you should be telling off when the discussion is about Shamima Begum and her mother.

I would like to know what she could actually be charged with in the UK if she did come back. Her crimes were committed in Syria. My suspicion is that she could only be charged with something relatively minor.

Also, normally if a British citizen commits a crime abroad, they face justice in that country, people don't expect them to be brought back for trial in the UK. Her victims are in Syria. SB's sympathisers don't seem to care about them.

The grooming took place in the UK

Via the Internet apparently from Syria. She wasn’t groomed, she was radicalised. The romanticism on this thread is shocking.

Isn't the difference that the groomed girls didn't willingly be a part of a regime that kills men, women and children? I'd count the former as victims, I'd count the latter as a murderous terrorist.

15 is not 5, she has some personal responsibility in being open to be groomed for a role killing people.

And if you hear her latest interview, she doesn't give direct answer. Interviewer asked her if she was trafficked and she talked in 3rd person and said that would be definition of trafficking. She also justified Manchester bombing.

Yep, which is why she must be tried, and punished under uk law as she is a uk citizen.

Firstly she never expressed remorse or regret never mentioned being trafficked etc UNTIL she got some lawyers who advised her the best option was to go back to being as English as possible and say you were a victim of human trafficking. Unfortunately she can cry all she wants about how she was a poor innocent but fact remains she was part of it all wanted to be and the onmly reason she isn't is because it was too dangerous and her husband died she has not many options left. I don't believe her but the more she goes on about her being a 15 year old child tricked into it all the more she wears western clothes and sploshes her image all over the place the more people will believe her. As for her mum I k n ow nothing about her but if she helps her she would probably be supporting terrorism and get arrested don't think you are allowed to send money etc but on the other hand it might be because she cannot get over what she has done or she wants to appear thst way. I think just leave her there she made her bed noone else did no matter how much she cried that they did.

Let's not forget her father was captured on film at one of the delightful Anjhem Choudrys hate rallies, along side one of Lee rigbys murderers
Wasn't that Hussen Abase, Amira Abase's dad

Shamima’s father didn’t live full time in the UK for very long. He left the family and went back to Bangladesh to live where he married a second wife and only returned to the UK occasionally for a few months at a time thereafter.

The family really were on their own in many respects.

Shamima Begum is an abuser of women and children.

Remind me why she needs support and sympathy? She is a brainwashed terrorist and mercilessly abused children and women. She can repent where she is.

There is zero doubt that what she saw going on over there will have traumatised her. I have zero doubt she will be suffering from PTSD

And there is it, right on cue and exactly as predicted ... the advance excuses as to why Shamima couln't possibly stand trial, even if we were foolish enough to allow her to return

icct.nl/app/uploads/2018/02/ICCT-Almohammad-ISIS-Child-Soldiers-In-Syria-Feb2018.pdf

There is nothing divisive and no misinformation in the article. It’s just quoting her mother and sister and is about how much they miss her. People on this site are quite ridiculous about the daily mail, it’s not that bad.

I think in this instance the radicalisation was absolutely a part of the grooming though? I think they're two halves of the same coin. We know that grown adult women who have been groomed and subjected to extreme situations and extensive trauma can end up becoming complicit in abuse themselves in order to survive. They are still recognised as victims though. They still need extensive support and therapy and rehabilitation as a result. And this was a 15 year old child. I don't honestly believe that any of those 15 year old girls could fully have known what they were walking into when they were trafficked out of the country and doubtless the grooming they experienced was giving them a very false romanticised version of that reality. There should have been more done to protect those girls from online exploitation and grooming in the first instance before it got so far that they were trafficked. So I think UK should allow her to come home and take responsibility for that failing because they did not safeguard her effectively in the first place when it was known at the time that such grooming and exploitation was happening to young people online. I don't see why her mum should leave, if it were me I'd be doing everything I could to get her home where i felt she'd be safer. To me it's really similar to child soldiers who are groomed and recruited and then brutalised and brainwashed into killing people. We see them as victims, we recognise their need for support and rehabilitation. This girl hasn't killed anyone we are aware of so I think it's an unfair double standard that she's seen as a "murderous terrorist" instead of a victim of a terrorist regime. I also think it really calls up the question of "what is a victim supposed to look like". She is extensively traumatised and traumatised people don't always present as we expect victims to. Eg no crying or shaking or remorse, but instead a complete shut down and coldness. It's the same problematic approach that affects rape trials and dv trials where the victim just doesn't look victimy enough for the jury to believe them.

think in this instance the radicalisation was absolutely a part of the grooming though? I think they're two halves of the same coin

I think the radicalization was well underway due to her environment and the grooming followed on from that.

Culturally, I think that a mother would not stage such an intervention for a married daughter.
However, I can see why the mother may wish to support her given that she is technically a young widow who has buried several of her infant children. I wonder what became of the other girls with whom she travelled?

I don’t think there was any grooming. It’s an excuse I’m not prepared to afford her.

True.

Also not sure why people think she has Bangladeshi citizenship. She doesn't. Apparently shes never even been there.

Again just because of her colour.

"Firstly she never expressed remorse or regret never mentioned being trafficked etc UNTIL she got some lawyers who advised her the best option was to go back to being as English as possible and say you were a victim of human trafficking. "

You do realise the majority of trafficking victims don't realise they've been trafficked and the extent of what's happened to them until its broken down with them? It's like being in an abusive relationship- you don't know you're in one until someone holds a mirror up to the things in your relationship that are unsafe and the fog lifts. So as someone who's worked extensively with trafficking victims that's not a reason to not believe someone.

Ive read plenty of news reports of young white girls being groomed by men and being taken abroad.

Usually the cops get involved and bring them back to be with their families.